To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

I have asked places before what to do when I have a pram and can't get in a cubicle. Want to know there answer use thr accessible one it is there for those who need it and can't access the small cubicles.
Hence why baby change facilities are often in the same room both need large floor space and are often not in use. Yes sometimes we have to wait unfortunately unless you hire the aquarium/software play/aby other venue out privately they are public facilities.

If parents started campaigning all that would happen is accessible toilets gain a sign saying prams allowed or whatever.

Places with radar keys are normally facilities which are fully open to the public (parks,supermarkets ect) and are usually put on to stop drug dealing, drug use and prostitution taking places within them not to lock out those who have a need (and privacy and dignity are a need) from using them.

@Bibidy

Tbh I feel like all that will happen if there is a campaign to provide 'family' loos is that the disabled facilities will end up being officially dual purpose.

I doubt many businesses won't invest in building another large cubicle when they already have one on-site, especially given they are not usually in constant use.

In many places they already are.

So the baby change facilities are in the disabled loo.

If parents started campaigning all that would happen is accessible toilets gain a sign saying prams allowed or whatever.

I think this is exactly what would happen too. Anyway I have a few days out planned to aquariums/ zoos etc over the next few weeks. I am planning to call ahead and ask them what facilities they will provide for me with a baby in a pram. I'll report back.

A menstrual cup is a medical device and yes being able to change it when I'm out rather than soaking my trousers in blood is a legally protected reason to use accessible facilities.

Many places have individual cubicles with sinks and toilets now which are great. But if that's not an option, would you rather I carry a bloody silicone cup around and rinse it in front of you? To be honest I wouldn't care but it would upset most people.

Again, I will say, accessibility should be for everyone, including those with families to deal with, permanent disabilities, temporary disabilities, or medical devices that need dealing with. I shouldn't have to walk around with blood running down my legs and parents shouldn't have to change shitty diapers on the floor of a cubicle or piss with the door open because their pram won't fit inside. Yes, in an ideal world, there would be a toilet for both. But would you then be complaining that someone with walking aids was using the family toilet because the disable was occupied? (This is mumsnet, so the answer is yes, probably, a hundred people would complain and start the world's biggest bunfight.)

Oh, and I've never once seem a queue for the disabled loo.
Willing to accept that might have been because I didn't look though as I was too stupid to use them when mine were little.

Most places have ONE toilet that is vaguely accessible to those with disabilities. They have many toilets accessible to everyone else.

The more people who decide they need To use the only toilet disabled people can access the harder they make it for those who need it to be able to access it and therefore harder for them to go out.

But these toilets are NOT accessible to a parent with a pram either? If they are out alone and have a baby and a toddler with them, they really are the only suitable facilities.

I don't think it would be considered acceptable if the situations were reversed to say that people could just manage using any toilet cubicle by propping the door open with their wheelchair so they were totally exposed.

The issue seems to be that more accessible toilets are required as a whole, not that more people should be banned from using those that do exist.

Using a menstrual cup means you need to use the disabled toilet? Seriously?

Seriously, if the other option is doing in a communal bathroom with the cubical door open then hell yes I do

@x2boys

I keep saying it but we need more "changing places" i dont think i have seen one, my fully mobile severley autistic eleven year old son has only been out of pull ups in the past 12 months.

We’ve been out on several days out recently.

A country house, a lakeside walk, a shopping centre, a zoo and an aquarium.

All have had changing places. This was over 4 different local authorities, the shopping centre and zoo being the private companies.

They do seem to be becoming more common, which is amazing, but there are still massive gaps, like in supermarkets and at the seaside.

(Lotherton Hall, White Rose Sopping Centre, The Deep, Anglers Country Park, Yorkshire Wildlife Park if you’re interested )

@Kendodd OP doesn't speak for all disabled people, which I shouldn't have to tell you, but anyway, there you go. The fact that you are so quick to throw a temper tantrum and say "fuck the disabled" because you don't like what one specific disabled person has said about toilets... maybe take a step back and reconsider your attitude (and remember that there is every chance that you or someone close to you will become disabled at some point, whether temporarily or permanently - I hope you're able to reconsider your nasty and hateful attitude before you're forced to come to terms with that).

@cashoncollection

YABU

No way would I go to the toilet with the door open. I am a human being and my privacy and dignity actually matter, even if I have a pram. The fact I have a pram indicates that a baby recently exited my vagina. When this happened it made toileting a lot more difficult. I have to make sure my vagina and bum are properly clean. I can’t always hold a poo for long. I have regular upset stomachs from painkillers. It’s not always a quick wee. Why should I deal with this with the door open when I could deal with it in private?

Previous posters have said that parents didn’t campaign for these facilities so they aren’t for us. Nice. What am I meant to do whilst an aquarium, likely on the financial brink, build another accessible toilet just so it can have a different label on the door?

As I said, my dignity as a person is important so I’d be using the toilet that best suits my needs each and every time. If that’s entitled then so be it. I’ll tend to my ruined entitled arse in private thanks.

...yeah, these are literally all problems that disabled people are more likely to have too.

I know a lot of people who struggle with continence issues from their condition(s) and have limited mobility. So they literally cannot use an ordinary loo - only the disabled loo is an option. Do you expect wheelchair users to sit outside and wet/soil ourselves because you want to take your sweet time in our bathroom?

This is not a hypothetical. This has happened to many people and I've had way-too-close calls with it myself.

They're not usually "disabled" toilets, they are "accessible" toilets. They just mean that they're designed to be usable by a wider variety of people, whether they have a disability or not. A person with a pram can use them, equally it's fine for an able-bodied person to use them if they prefer.

If you think about it, it would be ridiculous to have one toilet for disabled people and one for able people because it would mean that in an emergency the disabled would not be allowed to attempt to use the normal toilet.

@Dixiechickonhols

welshlady they could have a stoma with a colostomy bag or tracheostomy like I did so need the disabled loo. Yes lots are probably chancers but ‘the look’ can be really upsetting to someone I know it was to me at the time.

So get a radar key.

Innocenta - but what is the difference then if both parties are sharing the same difficulties and have the same needs?

A mother with a pram who is alone literally cannot use a standard cubicle without leaving the door open, which is not acceptable and would never be accepted as a way for a person with disabilities to use the loo. It is completely humiliating and removes the person's dignity.

People with prams will not always be with their babies, and on those occasions I am sure that they wouldn't use the disabled loos. But when they are they have a genuine need to use those facilities.

@Winemewhynot

Using a menstrual cup means you need to use the disabled toilet? Seriously?

Seriously, if the other option is doing in a communal bathroom with the cubical door open then hell yes I do

They don't have a pram, just a cup.

I don't like to see people flaming a disabled person talking about how they are having problems with disabled facilities. These accommodations are few enough and so much more is needed to make things truly accessible. I think we should be taking it seriously when someone raises a problem.

I agree the OP was wrong to say mums with prams can leave the door open, and there have been a lot of good points made about the need for accessible toilets for various groups. Accessible toilets rather than disabled toilets have become popular, in some cases this works well, avoiding embarrassing those with hidden disability, and making the most of the facilities if they are genuinely not used very much by disabled people. With this becoming more common though, when a disabled person raises a problem its even more important to make sure that they are listened to and make sure these changes are not disadvantaging them.

@Innocenta do you think that a permanent toileting accessibility requirement (as described by @cashoncollection) is less important than a permanent one, or one not caused by childbirth? I had a temporary ostomy years ago after a car wreck- luckily only for a few months. Was that less deserving of dignity and privacy than a permanent one?
No one here is saying that they want to use the accessible for fun so they can stretch their legs and relax a bit. They have described genuine needs -some more difficult than others but all genuine. Who is in charge of deciding what's an OK reason or what isn't? Is it you? Would you like to outline your requirements in detail so we all understand?

(sorry, should have said "temporary toileting accessibility requirement) in my first sentence above)

@Wroxie

A menstrual cup is a medical device and yes being able to change it when I'm out rather than soaking my trousers in blood is a legally protected reason to use accessible facilities.

Many places have individual cubicles with sinks and toilets now which are great. But if that's not an option, would you rather I carry a bloody silicone cup around and rinse it in front of you? To be honest I wouldn't care but it would upset most people.

Again, I will say, accessibility should be for everyone, including those with families to deal with, permanent disabilities, temporary disabilities, or medical devices that need dealing with. I shouldn't have to walk around with blood running down my legs and parents shouldn't have to change shitty diapers on the floor of a cubicle or piss with the door open because their pram won't fit inside. Yes, in an ideal world, there would be a toilet for both. But would you then be complaining that someone with walking aids was using the family toilet because the disable was occupied? (This is mumsnet, so the answer is yes, probably, a hundred people would complain and start the world's biggest bunfight.)

Loads of people use cups without having to use the accessible toilet. You don't have to rinse it every time you use it, you use paper. Some people bring a bottle of water if they feel they need to rinse it. This is not a good argument for using the disabled toilet. I'm genuinely astounded that you think it is!

For the record I am both disabled and a menstrual cup user.

I don't think you are being unreasonable.

I'm recently disabled and had a frustrating experience in a pub recently where the disabled toilet was constantly in use by a large family taking their kids in there. Presumably because it was closer than the other toilets at the opposite side of the pub.

You wouldn't park in a disabled space if you were able bodied so why use the disabled toilet!

@cricketmum84 disabled parking bags and disabled toilets are not the same. Bays are for the exclusive use of blue badge holder, disabled toilets are for all to use but accessible to disabled people

@Wroxie
I know she doesn't speak for all.
But the general consensus seems to be that, yes absolutely I should have to use the toilet in the circumstances I described while the disabled loo next door sits empty. Twice I have heard disabled people say they would rather somebody shit themselves than use the disabled. Now I understand that may just be frustration speaking but still.
I was a fool not to use the disabled, it just didn't occur to me at the time though. I would be extremely surprised if, should I ever become disabled, my opinion would change so much that I would begrudge someone with a pushchair using 'my' toilet.

Disabled or accessible toilet?

Most of you need to read this.