To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

owever, in this thread people are constantly insisting that wheelchair users have no increased or extra necessity of using the disabled loo. And that just... is not true. Sorry, but it isn't. If you don't understand that then you have no insight into life with a significant mobility-related disability.

I don't think that people are saying that though? I think most people can understand why a wheelchair user needs to use an accessible loo.

They are mainly saying that sometimes parents with prams have an equivalent need to use the accessible facilities and that leaving the door open while you use the toilet is not an acceptable solution.

@Kendodd

I originally voted that the OP was nbu. After reading the thread and listening to the struggles of others, including reflecting back to my own experiences, I've lost sympathy for her and wish I'd voted yabu. I was a fool not to also think of my own comfort, dignity and safety of my children when they were little and use the disabled.

I lost all sympathy here:

Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Disgusting suggestion IMO.

@Innocenta

Okay, I can see we aren’t going to agree. I have to admit sometimes I can feel similarly with certain things. Sometimes if something affects us personally it’s difficult to see it from an unbiased point of view.

Personally if I see someone I consider to have ‘less need’ than me using the disabled toilets I just accept the situation as there isn’t a scale of disability importance, pointing to who can and can’t use the toilets. I don’t feel wheelchair users should be prioritised above those with other disabilities in this situation. There are many wheelchair users who would be capable of waiting and lots of other people with disabilities who wouldn’t be able to do so, which is why I feel it isn’t our job to decide who has the ‘extra necessity.’ We can’t judge that by looking at someone exiting the toilet.

@Bibidy

owever, in this thread people are constantly insisting that wheelchair users have no increased or extra necessity of using the disabled loo. And that just... is not true. Sorry, but it isn't. If you don't understand that then you have no insight into life with a significant mobility-related disability.

I don't think that people are saying that though? I think most people can understand why a wheelchair user needs to use an accessible loo.

They are mainly saying that sometimes parents with prams have an equivalent need to use the accessible facilities and that leaving the door open while you use the toilet is not an acceptable solution.

Yes - your final paragraph here @Bibidy is exactly what I am saying.

[quote Kanaloa]@Innocenta

And do you think someone with a stoma should leak everywhere and not be able to clean themselves? Or should they change their bag in the middle of the public toilets, using the hand washing sinks in the middle of the room to clean themselves?

Of course I don’t think someone with a wheelchair should be denied access to the toilet. But neither should those with other disabilities. Many with hidden/invisible disabilities cannot use the regular toilets. It isn’t split into wheelchair users and healthy able bodied people. I don’t think you’ll be able to understand that though.[/quote]
Oh no, did the scary wheelchair user make you feel bad?

I know it must be hard to admit that not everything is about you, but actually... sometimes it isn't. If you'd taken time to look at all my responses you'd see I never expressed any issue with people who have invisible disabilities using the disabled loo All I'm saying is that it's a false equivalence to pretend that the nature of these needs is identical. It is not. Clearly that's something you reeeeaaally don't want to accept, and I'm not sure why. It's really not as desirable and awesome as you appear to think it is, being a chair user.

[quote Kanaloa]@Innocenta

Okay, I can see we aren’t going to agree. I have to admit sometimes I can feel similarly with certain things. Sometimes if something affects us personally it’s difficult to see it from an unbiased point of view.

Personally if I see someone I consider to have ‘less need’ than me using the disabled toilets I just accept the situation as there isn’t a scale of disability importance, pointing to who can and can’t use the toilets. I don’t feel wheelchair users should be prioritised above those with other disabilities in this situation. There are many wheelchair users who would be capable of waiting and lots of other people with disabilities who wouldn’t be able to do so, which is why I feel it isn’t our job to decide who has the ‘extra necessity.’ We can’t judge that by looking at someone exiting the toilet.[/quote]
And like I said in my other post, in the real world, I am the person in my group shutting up the others who are inclined to look/comment. I would never call someone out because they didn't 'look' disabled.

There is a difference between clarifying what's right, discussing who needs what online - and then what is courteous and correct irl. I have literally never once challenged someone about using a disabled loo.

I’m surprised you think I’m defensive. Actually you’re the one who sounds very defensive. But as I said upthread, it can be hard to look at things in an unbiased way when they affect us personally. You think wheelchair users should have priority and those with invisible disabilities shouldn’t, I don’t think this is the case.

Yabu, you actually expect a mother to leave her child unattended to use the toilet? You expect single mothers with 2+ kids not to use the toilet because you can't fit them into a cubicle. My dd is autistic, you can't tell looking at her, at 10 she still had to come into the cubicle with me and we didn't fit in a normal one so we used the disabled one, she goes in alone now but dp's dd still needs assistance in her 20's

But there are a lot of people who even if they don’t use a wheelchair due to their disabilities can’t access the ‘normal’ toilets.

Ds is 11 and needs help in the toilet even if not in his wheelchair. We have no option but to use the disabled toilet.

My Dad has a catheter, again he can’t empty that in a normal cubicle he needs the space to do it.

This is why we need many more accessible toilets and for them to actually be accessible to everyone who has disabilities which mean they need the space or facilities

@Kanaloa

I’m surprised you think I’m defensive. Actually you’re the one who sounds very defensive. But as I said upthread, it can be hard to look at things in an unbiased way when they affect us personally. You think wheelchair users should have priority and those with invisible disabilities shouldn’t, I don’t think this is the case.

I do think you sound very defensive.

In practice, I think (1) people with disabilities should have radar keys, (2) then they should just use the keys, totally regardless of visible/invisible, (3) there should be way more accessible loos for everyone!

I actually don't think that is such a problematic view? But what you seem to have an issue with is me pointing out that only chair users literally cannot enter the main loo. I just don't get why this is such a problem - it's basic fact!

only chair users literally cannot enter the main loo.

Incorrect. I can't fit my baby in her pram into a regular size loo.

only chair users literally cannot enter the main loo.

What's the benefit of being able to enter the main loo if it's not suitable for your needs?

@Sirzy

But there are a lot of people who even if they don’t use a wheelchair due to their disabilities can’t access the ‘normal’ toilets.

Ds is 11 and needs help in the toilet even if not in his wheelchair. We have no option but to use the disabled toilet.

My Dad has a catheter, again he can’t empty that in a normal cubicle he needs the space to do it.

This is why we need many more accessible toilets and for them to actually be accessible to everyone who has disabilities which mean they need the space or facilities

Again, I don't think anyone is saying that people with invisible conditions should be barred.

Don't understand the catheter, though. Maybe not something you can ask your DF, but why would he need extra space for that? (Again, not saying he wouldn't have a perfectly fair reason to be in the disabled loo, but having been cathed a lot myself, I think this could be done in a small space.)

@sofiegiraffe

only chair users literally cannot enter the main loo.

Incorrect. I can't fit my baby in her pram into a regular size loo.

Presumably you can carry her and leave the pram outside. If you were going to wet or soil yourself, I assume you would do this?

@liveforsummer

only chair users literally cannot enter the main loo.

What's the benefit of being able to enter the main loo if it's not suitable for your needs?

It depends what 'suitable' means. If it's not a pleasant experience - well, very often the disabled loo isn't for us, either.

@Bibidy

owever, in this thread people are constantly insisting that wheelchair users have no increased or extra necessity of using the disabled loo. And that just... is not true. Sorry, but it isn't. If you don't understand that then you have no insight into life with a significant mobility-related disability.

I don't think that people are saying that though? I think most people can understand why a wheelchair user needs to use an accessible loo.

They are mainly saying that sometimes parents with prams have an equivalent need to use the accessible facilities and that leaving the door open while you use the toilet is not an acceptable solution.

If you can walk into the regular loos, then it literally cannot be an equivalent need.

Is it a need? Yes. It's a valid need. I actually often think it IS fairly reasonable for mums to use the disabled. Even when there isn't a disability issue in play. There should absolutely be proper accessible family bathrooms. No question that's a neglected provision that disproportionately hurts women.

But it's not an equivalent need.

Presumably you can carry her and leave the pram outside. If you were going to wet or soil yourself, I assume you would do this?

If I was at the point of wetting or soiling myself and there were zero other options, then yes. I would have get her out and hold her with one arm whilst removing my trousers, sit her on my knee whilst I used the loo, then awkwardly attempt to wipe myself with one hand and pull up and button my trousers with one hand. All whilst trying not to transfer any germs from the toilet to her. Or - I'd have to place her on the floor of a dirty public loo. You can see why I use the accessible option, surely.

It depends what 'suitable' means. If it's not a pleasant experience - well, very often the disabled loo isn't for us, either.

It's means you aren't able to use the toilet for whatever you need to use it for, what's the use of physically being able to fit inside.

Goodness me, OP.

YANBU about the parlous state of accessible toilets designed for both wheelchairs users and mothers with prams - it's ridiculously underdesigned in most places and I would very happily support a campaign seeking to improve that, including with access keys / staff-only unlocking for both groups (separate facilities or a significant increase in shared ones).

YABVU to turn on other groups of people who suffer due to these after-thought arrangements and to suggest that an acceptable solution is to completely strip women of their dignity by forcing them to expose themselves and defecate with the door open in full view of complete strangers.

Would you be happy with a disabled toilet provision with no door, or a door that locked open once you were inside so that you could be seen by all and sundry? Of course not; you'd think it was outrageous, and you'd be right. Other people are entitled to just as much privacy and dignity as you are.

The fight for proper resources should be between those who need it (collectively) and those with the power to provide it; not between two groups who need it tearing strips off each other as they scrabble for the scraps. (I've never sounded so communist in my life, but there we are!)

I understand that it's hard to see it like that when there an immediate need of yours that is being poorly met and you maybe resent someone you perceive as having it better than you - even if they're suffering too - but when a bit of time has passed, give your head a gentle wobble and redirect your anger appropriately.

A wheelchair user doesn't trump my teenage son's need not to be changed in the open in a male or female toilet by 2 people. No chance of us all fitting in a cubicle. They also do not trump my son's need not to become distressed, bit himself and attack other people, which he would do in that situation. The right of access is the same as it with blue badge spaces which he also has despite being physically mobile.

Like others have said too, I struggle with my bowels and I nearly shat myself the other day so had to find the nearest toilet, which was a local supermarket, I have a 3 month old baby and there's no way I am leaving her outside whilst I literally explode (sorry tmi) so I used the disabled so I could take her in, and you know - have some privacy. Every single person has their own struggles you don't know about.

Not at all helpful from me OP but I'm disabled and not able to work atm. A friend told me that radar keys can be purchased from Ebay so I don't think that is going to be a solution. Yes to family facilities though so that disabled facilities aren't over stretched.

Part of the problem is that there are so many fewer public loos nowadays. So now there are more people per loo/less loo space etc