To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

@x2boys

I keep saying it but we need more "changing places" i dont think i have seen one, my fully mobile severley autistic eleven year old son has only been out of pull ups in the past 12 months.

There’s one in my very small town. We had new toilets built so they put one in. I saw one in Manchester airport too.

@x2boys

I keep saying it but we need more "changing places" i dont think i have seen one, my fully mobile severley autistic eleven year old son has only been out of pull ups in the past 12 months.

Alton Towers have put in a great changing place, there and the Eureka childrens museum are the only two I can think of.

not read the thread, been on too many of these for that.YANBU op
if parents want pram spaces why don't they campaign for them

@Justrealised

For me personally, it's not about entitlement. It's about the only available option at that point in time. That's necessity, not entitlement. Entitlement would be thinking "I'm more important than a disabled person so I will push to the front of the queue for this toilet". Clearly I don't think like that. I just use the toilet in the only available place when I have my baby with me. Last time I checked that doesn't amount to an entitled attitude.

Changing places toilets should be compulsory in all new buildings with public access. I am lucky DS doesn’t need them but I will keep on helping fight for them for those who do.

I was very impressed with the accessibility at Gloucester services who had both changing places toilets (and I think shower too) and disabled toilet and disabled shower. It will certainly be my go to services with DS now because the toilets where spotlessly clean too unlike many disabled toilets.

Most businesses and public places have to by law provide facilities for disabled people to use the loo, they do not however have to provide a family loo.

Well they should have to IMO

@sofiegiraffe

Most businesses and public places have to by law provide facilities for disabled people to use the loo, they do not however have to provide a family loo.

Well they should have to IMO

So start the campaign then.

It's not as if the disabled facilities are typically in constant use - and I say this as someone who's used them with disabled children/mum/dad very regularly. Of course we can share the facilities with another user who has a genuine need. And a mother who cannot get into a cubicle with her pram needs an accessible toilet. She has a genuine need.

Completely agree with this SpidersAreShitheads.

And as you say, there is rarely a wait for disabled facilities, and tbh even if a parent is using it in order to fit a pram, it's likely to be a couple of minutes. Disabled toilets aren't always guaranteed to be empty and available for immediate use.

Tbh I feel like all that will happen if there is a campaign to provide 'family' loos is that the disabled facilities will end up being officially dual purpose.

I doubt many businesses won't invest in building another large cubicle when they already have one on-site, especially given they are not usually in constant use.

@TheFairyCaravan how do you know whether I have or haven't campaigned for better spaces for mums and babies?!

[quote sofiegiraffe]@Justrealised

For me personally, it's not about entitlement. It's about the only available option at that point in time. That's necessity, not entitlement. Entitlement would be thinking "I'm more important than a disabled person so I will push to the front of the queue for this toilet". Clearly I don't think like that. I just use the toilet in the only available place when I have my baby with me. Last time I checked that doesn't amount to an entitled attitude. [/quote]
But it isn't an option for you. The facilities aren't for your needs. Other options would be to ensure that there are facilities for you to use before going and not assume there will be facilities, go somewhere else or not go. These are the same options many disabled people have.

Not considering yourself entitled is not the same as not being entitled. I would imagine most entitled people don't consider themselves so.

@Bibidy

Tbh I feel like all that will happen if there is a campaign to provide 'family' loos is that the disabled facilities will end up being officially dual purpose.

I doubt many businesses won't invest in building another large cubicle when they already have one on-site, especially given they are not usually in constant use.

I agree with you actually.

I've worked in accessibility for years and there is a concept that making things accessible for people with limited mobility is actually making things accessible for everyone. Kerb cuts don't just help people in wheelchairs, they also help people with prams or wheeled luggage. Buttons to open doors don't just help people with walking aids, they help people carrying things (they can open with their elbow, for example). The list goes on - basically anything that helps disabled people usually helps everyone. For example, I don't have a mobility disability or a pram, but I do have a menstrual cup - so sometimes using the toilet that has more room and a sink inside is useful and important. If you want the world to be accessible for you, be generous and share that accessibility with everyone.

Having a mobility disability doesn't mean you don't have to wait for the toilet. It just means that there should be a toilet that you can use when you get to the front of the queue. Expecting a woman with a pram to use the toilet with the door open (!) is just... insane.

@Justrealised
I'm not engaging with you further as you are completely misunderstanding me.

@alltheemptyfields

people with prams who feel entitled to the wheelchair space

I am not sure that falls into the same category as someone who needs to use the toilets.

It's usually the same people with PFB entitlement though.

But it isn't an option for you. The facilities aren't for your needs.

Yes it is an option. It's the only option that currently meets my needs.

@TheFairyCaravan

This thread has really riled me.

Same. It’s full of ableism, entitlement and inconsideration from selfish parents.

For context, as of Sept 20, there was 38 blue badge users per every blue badge space. Now, there’s fewer disabled toilets and more people eligible to use them because they don’t all qualify for a badge. Now add in all the parents who think they’ll just pop in because they can. That’s a lot of footfall.

Parents really need to get a grip and start thinking about what facilities would make their lives easier instead of hijacking facilities that make disabled people’s lives easier. Then they need to campaign for them. There’s a lot of you, and you’re very vocal on here.

I’m so fed up of these threads. They’re getting worse. Being disabled is really hard. It’s much, much harder than going out with a pram. I wish people would be a bit more considerate.

three in four disabled people avoid a venue because of lack of accessible toilets

I do agree with this. Until you have to plan which toilets to use because of a disability you just won’t get it.

In my opinion, those that get how important disabled facilities are to disabled people have experience of disability. Those that don’t don’t really have much real idea.

Have to say on a side note about 5 years ago my local M and S was built. They have super facilities. It has an ability loo with left hoist one with a right hoist one without a hoist and one family toilet. Both the men’s and woman’s loo have baby changing cubicle too.

This will probably shock people but, the Costa in my local town has only one single cubicle toilet! it's therefore for everyone. Disabled, non-disabled, male, female, parents with prams. I use that one too. Guess that also makes me entitled 🤷‍♀️🙄

@Wroxie

I've worked in accessibility for years and there is a concept that making things accessible for people with limited mobility is actually making things accessible for everyone. Kerb cuts don't just help people in wheelchairs, they also help people with prams or wheeled luggage. Buttons to open doors don't just help people with walking aids, they help people carrying things (they can open with their elbow, for example). The list goes on - basically anything that helps disabled people usually helps everyone. For example, I don't have a mobility disability or a pram, but I do have a menstrual cup - so sometimes using the toilet that has more room and a sink inside is useful and important. If you want the world to be accessible for you, be generous and share that accessibility with everyone.

Having a mobility disability doesn't mean you don't have to wait for the toilet. It just means that there should be a toilet that you can use when you get to the front of the queue. Expecting a woman with a pram to use the toilet with the door open (!) is just... insane.

Which would be wonderful if everything was accessible. But it isn’t.

Most places have ONE toilet that is vaguely accessible to those with disabilities. They have many toilets accessible to everyone else.

The more people who decide they need To use the only toilet disabled people can access the harder they make it for those who need it to be able to access it and therefore harder for them to go out.

[quote sofiegiraffe]@TheFairyCaravan how do you know whether I have or haven't campaigned for better spaces for mums and babies?! [/quote]
It’s downright obvious from your responses on here, tbf.

Using a menstrual cup means you need to use the disabled toilet? Seriously?

No one will campaign for spaces they only need temporarily when the hard work of disabled people has provided what they think is a viable alternative.

@Bibidy

Tbh I feel like all that will happen if there is a campaign to provide 'family' loos is that the disabled facilities will end up being officially dual purpose.

I doubt many businesses won't invest in building another large cubicle when they already have one on-site, especially given they are not usually in constant use.

Yes, I would be very surprised if it didn't happen like this. It will be like the spaces on buses all over again.

@sofiegiraffe

This will probably shock people but, the Costa in my local town has only one single cubicle toilet! it's therefore for everyone. Disabled, non-disabled, male, female, parents with prams. I use that one too. Guess that also makes me entitled 🤷‍♀️🙄

Yep. This particular set up in Costa has been targeted by males putting in hidden cameras in there. Personally if the concern is about privacy, a Costa toilet is not necessarily the place you're going to find it. :-)