To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

@Wheresmrpenguin

YABVU. So as a mum going out, my pram won't fit into a cubicle am I expected to just piss myself when I'm out? Where's the dignity in that? I went into a toilet urgently yesterday after having had a long drive and I could barely get myself in as it was so tight, I was pressed up against someone washing their hands at the sink, no chance would I have been able to get a pram in there. Plus the idea of collapsing the pram to fit in, by the time I'd done that, put my DD somewhere safe (impossible) and all my bags somewhere that's not a fire risk or risk of being stolen. Oh look i've pissed myself in the process.

How can you even think of posting that after reading what Op has said? Assuming you've even bothered to highlight her posts and read them.

@Wheresmrpenguin

YABVU. So as a mum going out, my pram won't fit into a cubicle am I expected to just piss myself when I'm out? Where's the dignity in that? I went into a toilet urgently yesterday after having had a long drive and I could barely get myself in as it was so tight, I was pressed up against someone washing their hands at the sink, no chance would I have been able to get a pram in there. Plus the idea of collapsing the pram to fit in, by the time I'd done that, put my DD somewhere safe (impossible) and all my bags somewhere that's not a fire risk or risk of being stolen. Oh look i've pissed myself in the process.

Exactly! Sorry lady with the pram - you'll just have to either piss yourself or leave your baby unattended - pick one please. Because you're not using this toilet (even if it's free). How dare you be so entitled as to not want to either piss yourself or have your baby abducted?! 🙄

This thread has really riled me.

@sofiegiraffe

Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet.

Except it's not about "entitlement". It's about necessity. If a premises of not going to provide a suitable parent and baby toilet with enough space for a pram, then using a disabled toilet is often the only option left if you're by yourself with no one to watch the pram! Why can't people see this?

Maybe because when I was younger with children disabled toilets were quite few and far between. And you know what? I managed. I didn't cause distress to others who had the misfortune to have a physical disability by putting the needs of my healthy self and two young children above theirs.

@Nixandwotsit

I'm so pleased that you managed. How, exactly? Did you leave your baby outside unattended? Take them out of the pram and lie them at your feet on a dirty floor while you peed? Ask a stranger to watch them? Pee with the door open? Genuinely I'm intrigued.

Some people really don’t get how hard it is for people with disabilities to even get out the house do they. They don’t realise the issues that could very easily come about if they can’t easily access a toilet.

And don’t forget this is for life. Not just for a few years while a baby is young but for life.

People have campaigned for a long time for better disabled facilities. Campaigns are still ongoing and probably always will be. Sadly rather than campaigning themselves other groups just take what has been campaigned for and make life harder for those who need it.

Lots of people have invisible disabilities and use disabled toilets (IBD, continence issues, stoma etc) including mums with prams.

Also Radar keys don’t help much as many mums without disabilities buy them online so they can take the park into the loo with them. I remember this being common knowledge at baby groups!

Was it a disabled toilet or a Changing Places one? Sometimes the child has a disability that requires nappies and an adjustable height table, you don’t know by looking at them.

I always assume people using disabled toilets have a good reason to use them. Eg they may have arthritis or a muscle problem and need the drop down bars to get up, or they may be about to vomit and can’t wait in a long queue.

People with genuine Radar keys often forget them and staff have to unlock the toilet for them. So leaving it unlocked saves someone in desperate need from trying to find a member of staff to get into the loo.

I think it would be better to suggest staff provide more accessible toilets rather than lock them so you need a Radar key. Or it just encourages more people to buy Radar keys without a genuine reason (they just want to take the pram in with them or have several kids who won’t fit in a normal size cubicle).

I really think that the people who think it's OK to use the disabled loos are missing a point. They have a problem - lack of proper access for parents with children. Instead of tackling that robustly (as the disabled community had to and still does) they decide to take desperately needed facilities from another, disadvantaged, group.

How can that every be right?

There’s never going to be a perfect set up with regards to disabled facilities. I have an adult son that I need to take to the toilet. I can’t take him in the ladies and he can’t use the men’s alone. I’ve seen all sorts of rubbish set ups, a campsite we use, I have to walk him through the ladies showers to get to the disabled shower or I could walk through the men’s shower with him to get to the disabled shower!

There are rarely any perfect places that cater for everyone so we all just have to be a bit more accommodating. There’s no way I’d pee with the door open.

Radar key is pointless anyway as you can buy them on Amazon.

@Nixandwotsit

I really think that the people who think it's OK to use the disabled loos are missing a point. They have a problem - lack of proper access for parents with children. Instead of tackling that robustly (as the disabled community had to and still does) they decide to take desperately needed facilities from another, disadvantaged, group. How can that every be right?

@Nixandwotsit I think people are annoyed at the OPs original comment about Mum's having to wee with doors open so they can keep their baby safe in the pram!

@Nixandwotsit

I really think that the people who think it's OK to use the disabled loos are missing a point. They have a problem - lack of proper access for parents with children. Instead of tackling that robustly (as the disabled community had to and still does) they decide to take desperately needed facilities from another, disadvantaged, group. How can that every be right?

This!

I didn't cause distress to others who had the misfortune to have a physical disability by putting the needs of my healthy self and two young children above theirs.

The distress argument is interesting. Suppose I need the toilet whilst out and about, but I am expected not to use a disabled toilet. Here are my options if I have my baby with me:

1. Use a normal cubicle and leave the door open. This would cause me distress.

2. leave my baby unattended behind a locked door while I use the toilet. This would cause me distress.

3. don't use the toilet at all - wait til i get home. As an IBS sufferer; this would cause me distress (and considerable physical pain).

So it sounds like what you're saying is, so long as I don't cause others distress, it's fine for me to feel the exact same emotion.

Ok.

@Nixandwotsit

I really think that the people who think it's OK to use the disabled loos are missing a point. They have a problem - lack of proper access for parents with children. Instead of tackling that robustly (as the disabled community had to and still does) they decide to take desperately needed facilities from another, disadvantaged, group. How can that every be right?

But what you're missing is that many businesses don't have the physical room to facilitate a third toilet option, unless we have mens and womens shared toilets but I'm sure there would be an uproar about that. By saying that mum's can't use the disabled toilets and there's no room in the normal toilets, then are we pram users not allowed to use the toilet? I wouldn't be able to go many places at all if this was the case.

The issue here is that many premises do not cater for parents with pushchairs to use the toilet. Until they do, parents use the only available options that ensure they maintain their dignity and keep their baby within their eye line. Don't blame the parents using the disabled loo for this - blame the places that aren't providing suitable facilities for all.

Exactly @Wheresmrpenguin

@Shirleyphallus

People without disabilities shouldn’t use the disabled toilet

But there should also be adequate facilities in place for women to use the loo a pram. Your suggestion of using the loo with the door open isn’t appropriate.

Ahem... And men. I am constantly surprised by the absence of baby change in men's loos where the women's loos nextdoor have a baby change.

That's said I'd probably happily sit on the throne with the door open.

As for using the disabled loo. I think it's fine, but would always give priority to a disabled.

Incidentally I'm not disabled but have a radar key. Its handy for opening gates on the local paths to get the bike and pram through. Wouldn't use it for a loo though. Point is anyone can buy one.

@Theloftmonster

Why are the disabled community expected to campaign for extra disabled loos rather than parents being expected to campaign for family friendly toilets?

You do not use the disabled toilet unless you are disabled or it is also an allocated baby change area.

Agree with this. I know it’s hard with a pram but you shouldn’t use the disabled loo if you’re not disabled.

As someone who cares for a disabled child I agree with Radar key system.

The only thing I would say some disabled loos with Radar key access are pretty grim.

There does maybe need a designated baby changing toilet for men and woman that’s big enough for a pram.

@Lemonsandlemonade

There does maybe need a designated baby changing toilet for men and woman that’s big enough for a pram.

Exactly. So in the meantime let's stop getting angry at parents with prams and calling them "entitled" when they are simply using what is very often the only option!

I can understand where you're coming from but I must admit, I will nip into the disabled loo with my pushchair. I have a very weak bladder and pee every hour. I wouldn't be able to pee with the door open. However, if there was a queue or a disabled person was behind me or anything like that, I'd go somewhere else like another shop or public place. I also would be as quick as humanly possible!
I'm so sorry you felt your trip was ruined by this but I wouldn't let it bother you so much as it has happened now

The main issue here is that family toilets are not a common thing and they absolutely should be. My partner struggles on days out with DD if I’m not with him taking her to the toilet. He doesn’t like taking her in the gents really he would much prefer a family bathroom. She’s is almost 3.

When she was a tiny baby in a pram, if I was alone I generally tried not to pee unless desperate because hardly anywhere has family facilities and facility large enough to accommodate a pram.
I certainly would have chosen the disabled toilet over leaving the door open though.
I can’t imagine needing to change my tampon and having to do so if full view of other people. Or trying to change a tampon with a baby I’m my arms as PPs have suggested.

Leaving the baby outside the cubicle is a ridiculous idea, imagine the thread i left my baby outside the cubicle while I used the toilet and someone took her. The poster would be ripped the shreds being called neglectful.
Same with asking someone to watch the baby, who in their right mind is ok leaving their child with a stranger even for a minute while you do a quick wee?

It’s not good enough that there aren’t enough disabled and family friendly facilities. I always made an effort to not use a disabled toilet wherever possible it occasionally it’s something I have had to do

@sofiegiraffe

The issue here is that many premises do not cater for parents with pushchairs to use the toilet. Until they do, parents use the only available options that ensure they maintain their dignity and keep their baby within their eye line. Don't blame the parents using the disabled loo for this - blame the places that aren't providing suitable facilities for all.

So get campaigning for better facilties then!

@Poppop4

The main issue here is that family toilets are not a common thing and they absolutely should be. My partner struggles on days out with DD if I’m not with him taking her to the toilet. He doesn’t like taking her in the gents really he would much prefer a family bathroom. She’s is almost 3.

When she was a tiny baby in a pram, if I was alone I generally tried not to pee unless desperate because hardly anywhere has family facilities and facility large enough to accommodate a pram.
I certainly would have chosen the disabled toilet over leaving the door open though.
I can’t imagine needing to change my tampon and having to do so if full view of other people. Or trying to change a tampon with a baby I’m my arms as PPs have suggested.

Leaving the baby outside the cubicle is a ridiculous idea, imagine the thread i left my baby outside the cubicle while I used the toilet and someone took her. The poster would be ripped the shreds being called neglectful.
Same with asking someone to watch the baby, who in their right mind is ok leaving their child with a stranger even for a minute while you do a quick wee?

It’s not good enough that there aren’t enough disabled and family friendly facilities. I always made an effort to not use a disabled toilet wherever possible it occasionally it’s something I have had to do

Yep. All of this.

This thread has really riled me.

Same. It’s full of ableism, entitlement and inconsideration from selfish parents.

For context, as of Sept 20, there was 38 blue badge users per every blue badge space. Now, there’s fewer disabled toilets and more people eligible to use them because they don’t all qualify for a badge. Now add in all the parents who think they’ll just pop in because they can. That’s a lot of footfall.

Parents really need to get a grip and start thinking about what facilities would make their lives easier instead of hijacking facilities that make disabled people’s lives easier. Then they need to campaign for them. There’s a lot of you, and you’re very vocal on here.

I’m so fed up of these threads. They’re getting worse. Being disabled is really hard. It’s much, much harder than going out with a pram. I wish people would be a bit more considerate.

three in four disabled people avoid a venue because of lack of accessible toilets

I keep saying it but we need more "changing places" i dont think i have seen one, my fully mobile severley autistic eleven year old son has only been out of pull ups in the past 12 months.

@sofiegiraffe

Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet.

Except it's not about "entitlement". It's about necessity. If a premises of not going to provide a suitable parent and baby toilet with enough space for a pram, then using a disabled toilet is often the only option left if you're by yourself with no one to watch the pram! Why can't people see this?

Actually it is about entitlement to some extent. Many disabled toilets were created (after much campaigning) so that businesses could meet their reasonable adjustment requirement (pre emptive) as disability is a protected characteristic under the equality act. Being a mum with a big pram loaded with shopping isn't a protected characteristic. Most businesses and public places have to by law provide facilities for disabled people to use the loo, they do not however have to provide a family loo.

Parents won't campaign for better family facilities as this part of having a child is usually a short length of time and not worth it when they can wrongly justify using spaces designated for the disabled.