To think she had this baby out of spite?

[Nineteeneightynine]

Name changed because on the off chance the woman in question uses MN i don't want her knowing who i am by my posting history.

I'll call her Sarah.

Sarah was in a relationship with 'John' and the pair had a child. After 6 years together the relationship came to an end - but during the final 2 years of the relationship Sarah had multiple terminations of unplanned pregnancies because she didn't want more children and the pair were growing apart. The split, however, was instigated by her.

They broke up and 18 months later John met and began a relationship with somebody else. They got engaged and conceived a baby.

Sarah then decided she wanted him back after all.

At this point Sarah became even more difficult (think using her existing child as a weapon)

When Johns partner was heavily pregnant Sarah orchestrated a situation whereby she and John would be alone together, think special occasion under the guise of being for their child's benefit. Alcohol was involved.

Sarah made a pass at John, and because John is a selfish idiot and wasn't getting much 'action' at home with his heavily pregnant fiance, he reciprocated and they had a one night stand. John claims Sarah told him she was on the contraceptive implant so they didn't need to use a condom. John didn't question it and was happy to proceed without.

Soon after, very soon indeed, almost as if she was waiting to test, Sarah tells John she's pregnant and wants him to get back together with her "for their family" and try again.

John doesn't want to re-enter the relationship and wants to stay with his then current partner, who was expected to give birth any day.

Sarah decides that actually 'now' (then) is the perfect time to bring another child into the world and she would be having the baby regardless. Issues ultimatums. Briefly stops contact between John and his existing child when John says he doesn't want another.

Bare in mind that before the relationship ended, Sarah was adamant she didn't want any more children and exercised her right to terminate multiple pregnancies because the time wasn't right and the relationship was failing. It was only after seeing John settling down with somebody else she changed her mind.

Johns partner found out and was understandably crushed, now years later has to co-parent and see that (yes totally innocent) child on a regular basis.

WIBU to believe that Sarah, with all of the above taken into consideration, had this child out of spite?

We don’t know she lied about birth control, we just know that John claims she did.

Exactly and considering he was sooooo drunk he was manipulated ( )can we really count on his version of events?

What has happened to John’s fiancé?

Did they get married?

When did she find out about the pregnancy?

Have they split up?

How is she coping?

Has her child any relationship with their half-siblings?

All that matters is how the wounded innocents in all of this have faired.

How are they doing?

I just want to say that all of this defending shitty behaviour just because the person in question is a woman is doing nobody any favours. In real life we all know people who do shitty things with an end goal in mind. We've all met women who are capable of being calculating and spiteful.

No amount of blind defence of Sarah is going to convince me that she is any less of a shit than John is.

They're both arseholes.

Some posters on MN think women can’t do any wrong and it can be very frustrating at times.

But in this situation all we know is that John is more in the wrong than Sarah.

• Sarah used contraception, John did not.
• Sarah wasn’t in a relationship, John was.
• Sarah wasn’t having a baby with someone else, John was.

They both don’t come across great as they seem quite toxic for each other but from the facts John is definitely more in the wrong and he’s the one who is going to have to explain to his children why there is such a small age gap between them.
If he didn’t cheat and have sex with her none of this would have happened.

Why are you so focused on trying to make Sarah out to be worse than John?

What actual facts do you know about what happened in this situation? Not what you’ve been told or what you think happened but what you were actually a witness to?

@Nineteeneightynine

No I don't believe that anybody who has an abortion has no right to a child afterwards.

What I believe is that abortion shouldn't be used as an excuse for people to be reckless with their contraception, IE "oh it doesn't matter if I get caught up pregnant, I can just abort"

You think that doesn't happen?

It certainly does.

"Shit, another pregnancy. Ok let's abort"

Rinse and repeat until such a time when a so called accidental pregnancy can be used as leverage or a tool to getting something you want, in this case an ex back.

I know that's been the case because I have SEEN it with my own eyes. What part of that aren't you understanding? I have been on the sidelines of this shit show for nigh on ten years.

You lot are reaching your conclusions based on a post not first hand experience. If you are lucky enough not to have people like these two in your family then good for you.

Jeremy Kyle has got to find his guests somewhere though hasn't he?!

Anyway, I'm off to work. Ciao.

The thing is though, she would not have been able to "use it as leverage" or lied about contraception or done anything out of spite or any of the other things you're complaining about if JOHN HADN'T FUCKED HER.

So this all happened 3-4 years ago, you're supposedly not any of the people in this scenario and you're still gossiping and chewing over the motives behind something that's absolutely none of your business?

I think you need to take up a hobby, OP, you've got too much time on your hands.

Would love to hear sarah's side.. i bet my bottom it would be a completely different story

*” Hold on, if Johns partner (which isn't you allegedly) broke up with John in the end as you stated in later posts, why does she have to "co-parent" the child born out of "spite" or have I misunderstood?

For someone to know so much about this and care enough to post I can only assume you are his partner, despite your protestations to the contrary. In which case what his ex's motivations were is the least of your worries.
Co parent with John, not Sarah.

Inevitably she has had to see John with that child, etc.”*

So the now ex fiancé (ex wife no2) is struggling with seeing John with “that child” - does (did she) feel as bitter about “co-parenting” (which she isn’t) John’s first child?

Would love to hear sarah's side.. i bet my bottom it would be a completely different story

I agree.
John got caught cheating so he’s obviously tried to blame it on Sarah to cover himself so he doesn’t look as bad but it seems only OP is buying his BS.
I wonder how often John and Sarah have sex I bet it wasn’t just that once.

It is amazing the time and energy some people, including women, will expend on defending their right to vilify a woman even when there's a dickhead man involved who is actually entirely to blame for it all.

@Nineteeneightynine

John is a bastard of the highest order, no doubt about that.

He is totally responsible for the infidelity and not taking precautions on his side to avoid a pregnancy.

However, he was deliberately mislead into believing that there was no chance of a baby being conceived because she was on the implant.

He wasn’t bothered about the possibility of giving his heavily pregnant fiancé an STD then?

*No the children aren't being abused, but due to the circumstances of the youngest ones conception their lives are messy and overly complicated. A fulfilling sibling relationship isn't possible for the foreseeable because both mothers can't stand one another and their father is an idiot who couldn't facilitate a conference call let alone a healthy relationship between two families.

Soon enough the children are going to figure out just why there is a strange age gap and what that means for the adults involved. No child should have to burden themselves with that shit.*

Unfortunately, life is not fair and we can’t control how we are brought into this world as you can’t control other people’s actions nor change what has already been done. Those children could be in a shi**y situation regardless. John already had a child with his ex-wife and was having a baby with his fiancé then so both women would have had to interact with each other in some way regardless because their children share a father and the fiancé would have been the stepmother if they had married so drama could have probably followed anyway. He could have also cheated with someone else during this time his fiancé was pregnant.

Their father CHOSE to have sex with his ex-wife and CHOSE not to use protection leaving it up to the woman he shouldn’t have been sleeping with in the first place, especially considering their past history. As others have pointed out, he is responsible for his own contraception just as much as she is something you continuously keep ignoring to take shots at Sarah for having abortions despite John knowing she didn’t want another child. She is also allowed to change her mind if/when she wants a baby so regardless whether the last child was out of spite or not is irrelevant and AGAIN none of your business. None of this would have happened if John hadn’t cheated or put himself in that position and I would say the same if it was a woman.

You deciding to post about a situation that is for the umpteenth time none of your business that happened YEARS ago because you don’t agree and dislike Sarah to such an extent you decided to air her dirty laundry (as well as the others involved) on an anonymous public forum where posts can and do end up being published by tabloids says a bit about your own character.

To add another point in regards to why she had the baby….

I’ve had two abortions, both when I was a teenager. I was ridiculously fertile and fell pregnant once when a guy told me he was infertile and I stupidly believed him, and the other when a condom split and I thought I’d be fine. They were the only 2 times I’ve had unprotected sex in my life and I got pregnant both times. If it had happened a third time (which was possible, my mum was also super fertile and even got pregnant on the pill), then I couldn’t have gone through with a third abortion and would have had the baby even though it wouldn’t have been what I truly wanted.

After 2 or 3 abortions, she may have just simply felt that she didn’t want to go through it again. I’m really not sure why you think spite is the only possible explanation.

How awful that the lives of these children of being negatively affected because all adults involved, including you OP, cannot get over an indiscretion for the sake of the children.

A child will not give a shit over the circumstances of someone's conception, what an odd projection.

Poor kids, do better by them guys come on.

What’s it to you?
John is a tool
Sarah is bonkers
New partner - she’ll probably hold onto John until she comes to her senses and then will most likely sack him off.

@Royalbloo

I genuinely don't think anyone has a child out of spite

It's certainly playing a long game in order to "spite" someone

Anyone who becomes a parent out of "spite" deserves all they get, really. Luckily it pretty much never happens, and didn't happen here.

Spiteful thread, though.

@Greentrianglesarethebestones

Presumably John's partner (whoever she is - who could possibly guess?) chooses to co-parent the innocent child, rather than has to, because she chooses to stay with John instead of chucking him out on the grounds that he is a cheating dickhead.

yes!!

@Greentrianglesarethebestones and @suspiria777 …. I was finding it hard to follow - if the (ex?) GF / Fiancé / 2nd wife was still in a RS with John or not ? if not where does the co-parenting frustration come in - and how would the OP a close relative of John have any personal knowledge of how difficult the (ex?) GF / Fiancé / 2nd wife found this?

John is a dick of the highest order. Hth

@Nineteeneightynine

So pedantic DrS.

The point Thumb was clearly making was that women sometimes do go to extreme lengths when they have a goal in mind.

Its really really extreme to have a child (you imply) when its unwanted. That's a hell of a fuck you isnt it.

It's certainly playing a long game in order to "spite" someone
Spite might be the wrong word, but given how on dozens of threads there's people suggesting having surprise 'accidents' if they want a baby. People think having a baby together will make a relationship work or bring their ex back to them etc. On here there's also lots of people suggesting ways to have a baby with their current partner (or one worrying occasion an ex) before leaving just to make sure the children are full siblings. That's already come up on this thread I think too.

I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Sarah decided she wanted another baby and had a 'surprise'.

It goes withour saying that John is an arse who needs to learn about keeping it in his pants.

Oh give over, three abortions in two years

Nobody who is taking due care to avoid pregnancy is that unlucky

Deluded

And John's part in the three pregnancies is just glossed over, just like that.
Have you actually heard yourself here? You are blaming the woman alone for pregnancies and terminations. She didnt get pregnant all by herself and if john is old enough to know how babies happen, hes old enough to know how to prevent them.
Terminations are not pleasant little interludes, they are very unpleasant and John like you thought well it's all down to her, she had the sex she deals with the consequences. Well sorry but after one event like that I'd not want to put my partner through another.
But then I dont have anyone telling me none of it's my fault and placing the blame squarely on another woman.

Takes two to conceive so why blame just the female who needed Johns sperm to apparently be spiteful

My Mum’s best friend’s daughter ‘L’ did something like this. She decided to end a relationship, he met someone else soon after and she got pregnant. As soon as L found out, she got back in touch with him and told him she wanted to give things another go. He decided to go back to her and as you can probably guess, she was pregnant within a month or so. He had two children to two women born about 3 months apart. L did everything in her power to make contact with his other child difficult and he just went along with it like a total wet lettuce so now he barely sees his other child. Awful.

I have no doubt ‘Sarah’ got pregnant intentionally in this scenario but obviously goes without saying that John is the biggest arsehole of all. Having sex with his ex because his very pregnant partner doesn’t give him enough sex is just grim.

I don’t understand how you can possibly ‘buy’ that John was duped, OP.

Sarah saying she’s on the implant when she’s not is a 100% unacceptable thing to do. No debate.

But it’s a total red herring in this particular scenario.

What man agrees to have barrier-free sex, i.e. sex without a condom - the only means of preventing STIs - when he has a partner at home? Oh, sorry, a heavily-pregnant partner at home?

Great, she’s supposedly on the implant. At least that means pregnancy won’t happen.

But what about sexually transmitted infections? What about his responsibility to ensure his own sexual health, his partner’s sexual health? His unborn baby’s sexual health?

He wasn’t duped. He just didn’t want to wear a condom, and didn’t care about STIs.

That is indefensible.

And the entirely predictable reason you’re getting such a drubbing here on AIBU is because you’re an over-invested, curtain-twitching gossip.

If you didn’t foresee this, you’re either new here, or could give John a serious run in the naivety stakes.