To ask why you haven't/won't have the covid vaccine?

[shuz1980]

Is it because your an anti vaxxer? Concerned about long term side effects?

topwings", re my only having seen my GP once in 15 years, the NHS does not do "annual bloods" though does it? That sounds like something USA private medicine might do. "@Xenia*, you really should be going to the GP for an annual checkup. My friend's dad hadn't been to a doctor in 20 years (and was very proud of it) when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer which would have been picked up at early stages and been very treatable if he had been getting annual bloods done."

I'm waiting until there's been more study on any possible long term side effects, and before people start it hasn't been around long enough for studies to be conducted. Some of us remember how eager they were to give NHS staff Pandemrix and the consequences of that. After seeing friends suffer it's a risk I'm not willing to take just yet.

the NHS does not do "annual bloods" though does it?

I didn't realise this. I'm not in the UK so pay for GP visits and when I arrange an annual checkup,they have a standard list of tests they do.

Is it not possible to get a GP annual check up in the UK? Do people not get their blood pressure, cholesterol, thyroid function checked? Is there PSA screening available for men?

Do you go round asking smokers why they still smoke?

But we now have regulation of where smokers may smoke, and a recognition of the deleterious impact of the smoker's smoking on other people's health around them. And we protect the non-smokers from the harm that other people's smoking can do to non-smokers.

That's the thing with the vaccine: it's as much about mitigating the risk to others around you.

We have laws & regulations about a lot of things which limit people's freedoms, so as to look after others and minimise risks to them: not speeding, not drink-driving, for example.

And the fact that I, and millions of others, had a smallpox vaccine 50 years ago, means you @Dreamstate don't have to have that particular vaccination.

@Mog27 Can you elaborate on your Pandemrix comment?
www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/pandemrix

@DoubleTweenQueen I've got 2 friends that felt as if they had to have the Pandemrix vaccine and now have narcolepsy as a result. I'm fortunate enough to work in the private sector so was never pressured into having it but others were not as lucky. One nurse took her own life because of the unbearable side effects and there's numerous law suits that have been successful. I haven't read your link because as I've said I know people in real life who have been affected by this and given the compensation paid out I think it's safe to say that all the evidence has been looked at thoroughly by many experts before concurring this vaccine was unsafe. Sadly it was too late for many.

[quote Nightgardenisodd]@GalesThisMorning I live abroad so do want to go back home to the U.K. and see my family, so I’m screwed aren’t I[/quote]
@Nightgardenisodd unless you have medical reasons for being unable to have the vaccine you should just do it. I had 36 hours of flu like symptoms after my first jab, and nothing after my 2nd. It was worth it. It has opened the world up to me again and made it immeasurably easier to travel to see my family. I am at highly reduced risk of death or serious or illness. I am less likely to spread the virus to vulnerable people. I am less likely to contribute to a new mutation. I am helping to contain this pandemic.

It has been an absolute joy to hug and spend time with my (vaccinated) family members abroad. My little one is able to spend time with his cousins and grandma again. I got to meet my youngest niece. All down to vaccines.

I am so grateful to live in a world where we can safely and freely access safe and effective vaccines. Plenty people cannot. We are privileged.

I'm a double vaxxed person, I made an I formed choice based on the information available to me, the research I did and my personal circumstances and feelings on the subject. Everyone else had the same decision to make and some peoples decision was going to be different to mine for a whole host of reasons, and I honestly don't think that's mine, or anyone else's business at all - I respect everyone's right to choose! I hate how nasty these threads always end up, nobody should be judging anybody for having or not having the vaccine, or any other medical procedure

@Mog27 From what I understand, the potential issue with Pandemrix was the antigen used was presented through a specific MHC haplotype in such a way that the antibodies raised to that fragment had cross-reactivity with a cell receptor involved with efficient CNS function. I'm not sure the prevalence of the particular haplotype in the population and therefore potential risk - the review I saw suggested a tiny percentage of incidence of narcolepsy - notwithstanding if it affects one person, and a causal link is found, that is one too many and good grounds for a successful lawsuit.

The only answer to that would be to try and model how an antigen is presented in cultured cell-lines expressing all MHC types and raising antibodies to those fragments, then testing for additional off-target activity. I'm not sure the technology is up to that currently.
I'm sure we'll get there.

It doesn't excuse the accountability of Pharma, and devastation adverse events have on individuals, of course, but we have to weigh up from a public health perspective Vs a personal perspective.

Vaccines do save lives. No medical treatment is completely without risk. I would defend anyone's right to make an informed choice, as I did for myself.

I have a number of health conditions that put me in the CEV group and I was prioritised for the vaccine but I was hesitant to have it in case it triggered my conditions and I reacted badly to it. That was until our area got the delta variant and I saw healthy people around me fall like skittles. Im now fully jabbed.

Congratulations for being sensible & brave @dottypencilcase

The thing is that if it's known by your medical team that you might have a bad reaction (such as anyphalaxis) you'd discuss it with them. And then you'd be carefully observed - more than the 15 minutes they make you wait in the surgery after the vaccination.

Identifying possible risks of a new medical approach and calling for greater research and testing of a new treatment is never wrong.

I can’t address every point due to time constraints, because there’s a lot of material out there. If you want to find it, and make your own mind up on it you will. But here’s one article that’s a generalist overview of some potential issues around mRNA vaccines:

ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51

I’m also intrigued that the inventor of mRNA vaccines Dr Robert Malone does not agree with the mRNA vaccine roll out as it is happening and is warning of dangers. Similarly the inventor of PCR tests is saying they cannot be used as they currently are and are leading to major issues with true pandemic statistics.

Data coming from other countries with high vaccination rates like Israel, and from countries using different approaches is also interesting.

Claiming to know the truth re: vaccine safety in the absence of long-term data is arrogant at best and potentially very dangerous.
Decrying dissenting opinions as “pseudoscience” or “wrong” and vilifying those who seek more data and information, research or understanding is censorship.

Arrogant bias and censorship should have no place in medicine.
Those with the oppressive “I’m right” cries on this thread are unable to truly offer guarantees around mRNA because nobody yet knows.

And yes, it is encumbent on the adults of a population to protect children. A life is a life of course, but not every death is a tragedy. The death of a child from a vaccine for an illness that posed them negligible risk but was administered “for the greater good” is a tragedy. The death of an 85 year old from cancer in a hospice while they happened to have Covid is not.

@CityCommuter

I wish he were my GP, he seems very ethical.

topwings, one reason our NHS is cheap and we do not overly medicate is because of lack of money and we do not over medicalise. People do not get an annual health check of any kind at all. There is no need for one anyway for most people.

@GalesThisMorning Did you read my previous post on this thread? There are medical reasons and I would love nothing more for them not to be. If they only allow vaccinated people, I’ll never be able to return to my home country again, is that fair?

Apologies @Nightgardenisodd, if I did read it I dont remember your circumstances. I hope that enough people will get vaccinated so that the world becomes safer for people like you who are medically unable to do so. I'm sure you are aware that you can travel to the UK whilst unvaccinated, and quarantine after arrival. Personally I wouldn't have wanted to travel unvaccinated however so I can understand not wanting to do so

@topwings @Xenia. My GP does five year check ups including bloods and then a follow up to discuss any medication needed or changes to diet. The nurse at the GP’s also do the three yearly smears

"Are the unvaccinated still following other guidelines to reduce the risks - WFH, shopping online, avoiding crowded places etc?"

When I need something, I go to the shop. I don't know what WFH is. No crowded places, unless there isn't a choice.

I haven't had it due to anxiety. I am not an antivaxxer. I have had every other vaccine offered to me, as has my child.

Are the unvaccinated still following other guidelines to reduce the risks - WFH, shopping online, avoiding crowded places etc?

No guideline anywhere says the unvaccinated have to take extra measures over people who are vaccinated, so no, I am not (although WFH is irrelevant to me and I avoid crowds due to anxiety not Covid).

@CityCommuter

We know of a GP who decided not to get the jab. His explanation is 'personal choice'... he's not actually vaccinating anyone at his practice so his patients have to go elsewhere. He maintains that he's 'not going to inject a patient with something that he wouldn't inject in himself'! Can't believe he still has his job tbh with that attitude but he would be described as very eccentric even Pre-Covid...

Actually he is right isn’t he?! We don’t know what’s in it and it’s the quickest vaccine made in history and time will tell what it really does for long term effects. Unvaccinated from covid and proud here.

Yes that’s right I’ve had other vaccines and not anti vaccine and no amount of propaganda ooh an anti vaccier died and he had covid and hiding the fact people are dying from the vaccine itself and the nasty effects on many. Yes some GP are speaking out against this absurd medically tyranny and a vaccine that no one really knows what will happen long term to anyone.

@Dayofpeace I agree with you there should be no censorship and plenty of discussion, although it is critical that it is factually accurate. The names you mention though (including the naturopath and computer scientist who wrote the article you linked to) have all been received critically though in respect of misinformation. I'm not sure how strong that case is for Dr Robert Malone, although I don't think he invented the mRNA vaccine as such. He and his wife have had the Moderna vaccination but he raises questions about benefit v risk in children and very young adults.

Where are these mysterious GPs?

My husband is not getting it yet as he has a lot of worries about mRNA and long term side effects. He's not anti vacc and was very pro the elderly and vulnerable having the vaccines as said benefits outweigh risks for them. Where he doubts it is younger healthier people being made to have it and has suspicions about the coercion tactics that have started to get younger people to take it. He also doesn't trust the governments of Uk, America and Europe who are pushing it the most. He also thinks after vaccinating the vulnerable and elderly here we should be pausing our programme to vaccinate those groups in rest of world. He doesn't feel at risk for covid. Healthy, 30s, non smoker, barely drinks, does lot of sport. I think it's a lottery and wish he would get vaccinated to protect himself. But can't push him on it. He's agreed to get novavax if it's ever approved as he's read a lot of good stuff about it. He's from Ireland and it's likely to be approved there before here so he'd probably drive over there to get it instead of remaining unvaccinated. I'm vaccinated by the way and he didn't try to talk me out of it at all. I think if we have choice of vaccinating our 9 and 7 year olds we will have a big row though. Unless it's Novavax. I think you're reasonable to ask as long as not rude about what you hear back. The vaccine issue is so divisive. Hate it.

Also, he mistrusts the quickest vaccine. Wholeheartedly believes that this won't be the best one we will get against covid and that it will be a learning curve. Hence why he thinks more patience was required in terms of vaccinating absolutely everyone. He does think it's done wonders for elderly and vulnerable but is now worried immunity for likes of his father and mine is waning when we are coming up to the season when it all kicks off again. He is very careful and respectful of rules and hygiene.