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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why you haven't/won't have the covid vaccine?

338 replies

shuz1980 · 07/08/2021 22:21

Is it because your an anti vaxxer? Concerned about long term side effects?

OP posts:
stayathomer · 08/08/2021 02:30

I've had the vaccine, believe in the vaccine but when a few older people I know asked what I thought after telling them this I told them I totally understood their worries, medicine has got it wrong in the past and some people can be so unlucky in how eg vaccines effect them (they all ended up getting it) It's amazing the work and resources that have been put into this but we don't have a crystal ball

HelgaDownUnder · 08/08/2021 02:53

I'm in Australia. Moderna is coming online soon. Currently there is a three months wait for Pfizer and a mountain of AZ gathering dust. Let it gather for all I care.

Dayofpeace · 08/08/2021 03:12

I haven’t got it because we don’t know what the future health implications are. It is a new biotechnology, never used before, with no long term safety data. It is currently used only under an Emergency Use Authorisation and has not completed even intermediate term safety trials.
The mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to manufacture the spike protein which your cells would never do naturally. It appears that those spike proteins accumulate in disparate areas of the body and can cross the blood/brain barrier. The future affects of this cannot be known for some time.

There are potential concerns for the individual of antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), and prions disease.
For society, there is the very real risk that mass roll-out of “leaky” vaccines (those that do not provide sterile immunity) may enable more severe virus mutations through greater viral “challenges”, and a wiser approach is to vaccinate only the vulnerable.

Vaccination makes little sense for those at low risk from Covid. The risk / benefit balance is wrong.

With regard to vaccination for others or “the greater good”, vaccinated people still catch Covid and still shed the same amount of virus to others. So one person’s vaccine will not protect another person, despite all the virtue-signalling that it will.

Further, I am concerned what kind of morality suggests that young people should en masse receive a new biotech vaccine with no long term safety data in order to protect the elderly? We older people should always protect the young, not vice versa.

Finally, on the topic of social exclusion and coercion, the right to bodily autonomy and free and informed medical consent was recognised and laid out under the Nuremberg code after the atrocities of medical experimentation during WW2. The world is currently at great risk of forever damaging that fundamental ethical medical principle.

Having said all that, I’d be prepared to have an “old style” vaccination like the coming Novovax, but that isn’t a choice atm.

Classica · 08/08/2021 03:29

There will be more and more cases like that of 58 yr old Leslie Lawrenson who made a vlog of his Covid experience and why it was no worse than the common cold and therefore no one needed a vaccine. And then a few days later his 19 year old son found him dead in his bed.

Covid disinformation is a public health crisis. There will always be a segment of society who think being a contrarian means they have superior critical thinking skills. They won't be fooled by anything as frivolous as science. It happened in WWII with people who railed against black out orders etc. There is nothing new in this. Depressingly predictable in fact.

Aishah231 · 08/08/2021 07:37

@Dayofpeace

I haven’t got it because we don’t know what the future health implications are. It is a new biotechnology, never used before, with no long term safety data. It is currently used only under an Emergency Use Authorisation and has not completed even intermediate term safety trials. The mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to manufacture the spike protein which your cells would never do naturally. It appears that those spike proteins accumulate in disparate areas of the body and can cross the blood/brain barrier. The future affects of this cannot be known for some time. There are potential concerns for the individual of antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), and prions disease. For society, there is the very real risk that mass roll-out of “leaky” vaccines (those that do not provide sterile immunity) may enable more severe virus mutations through greater viral “challenges”, and a wiser approach is to vaccinate only the vulnerable.

Vaccination makes little sense for those at low risk from Covid. The risk / benefit balance is wrong.

With regard to vaccination for others or “the greater good”, vaccinated people still catch Covid and still shed the same amount of virus to others. So one person’s vaccine will not protect another person, despite all the virtue-signalling that it will.

Further, I am concerned what kind of morality suggests that young people should en masse receive a new biotech vaccine with no long term safety data in order to protect the elderly? We older people should always protect the young, not vice versa.

Finally, on the topic of social exclusion and coercion, the right to bodily autonomy and free and informed medical consent was recognised and laid out under the Nuremberg code after the atrocities of medical experimentation during WW2. The world is currently at great risk of forever damaging that fundamental ethical medical principle.

Having said all that, I’d be prepared to have an “old style” vaccination like the coming Novovax, but that isn’t a choice atm.

Well said 👋
MareofBeasttown · 08/08/2021 07:50

I was at a vaccine centre yesterday to get 17 yr old DS his jab, and the nurse told me they were throwing vaccines away. I wish vaccines could now be passed on to poorer countries if the UK does not want it. It's inhuman to hear of this.

DoubleTweenQueen · 08/08/2021 08:15

@Dayofpeace Do you have any scientific reference for what you've stated?
Also what is your background? Thanks

topwings · 08/08/2021 08:26

I don;'t tend to get ill (have seen a GP for 7 minutes in 15 years

@Xenia, you really should be going to the GP for an annual checkup. My friend's dad hadn't been to a doctor in 20 years (and was very proud of it) when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer which would have been picked up at early stages and been very treatable if he had been getting annual bloods done.

Nightgardenisodd · 08/08/2021 08:31

@GalesThisMorning I live abroad so do want to go back home to the U.K. and see my family, so I’m screwed aren’t I

Bumblecattabbybee · 08/08/2021 08:34

I am deeply concerned about the long term side effects, having read a great deal into it and seeing how concerned a number of scientists and medical professionals are. The long term side effects of mRNA technology is my main concern but I have also known a few people to have very worrying short term side effects which I am also not keen on risking. Two of these people are still very unwell and needing hospital treatment.

I am not an anti-vaxxer or even close to one. I am extremely pro-vaccine. However, I am also very pro-informed consent and feel that people who are getting vaccinated are, in many cases, unable to give informed consent because they are simply not informed.

I am not a stupid person - medical and medical anthropology background, now working in education - but I know everyone who shares my opinion is deemed uneducated or an anti-vaxxer by those who are already vaccinated, and I believe a lot of this hatred and rage comes from a place of worry, so I try not to let it bother me, but if I'm honest, I do find it quite disturbing how people are insulting, belittling and verbally abusing others based on their decision to make their own decisions about their own bodies.

I will be more than happy to receive the vaccine in the future, if and when I feel that it is safe and all short- and long-term side effects are properly known.

Willyoujustbequiet · 08/08/2021 08:36

It most certainly is other people's business when it concerns a deadly disease that's highly contagious and you may have to work or be in close contact with that person Hmm

FromEden · 08/08/2021 08:54

@Dayofpeace completely agree with everything you said. Im not "anti vaxx" in the slightest, just don't want mrna, and am trying to hold out for novavax if I have to get one.

Olivestone · 08/08/2021 08:54

@CityCommuter No vaccine is 100% safe!...

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

The covid 19 vaccine has no long term safety data as it is still in it's trial stage which does not end until 2023 (ie. experimental still). Most drugs have about a 10 year trial before general release to make sure there are no serious side affects such as cancer, blood clots etc! Things take a while to show up!
I really don't think people should be pushing any medical treatment on anyone especially a pregnant lady!

Roselilly36 · 08/08/2021 08:57

I have decided not to have the vaccine. I have an autoimmune disease, and take a disease modifying drug. I haven’t seen data on how the vaccines could affect my condition or interact with the DMD. Due to my health I rarely go out, so I don’t consider my vaccine status a risk to others.

FromEden · 08/08/2021 08:59

It most certainly is other people's business when it concerns a deadly disease that's highly contagious and you may have to work or be in close contact with that person

The vaccines don't stop transmission. The cdc have come out and said as much link

So, what does it matter? Everyone can spread this virus if they are infected with it, vaccinated or not.

(Maybe the AZ one used in the UK is different but it's my understanding that they are the same technology, just different vectors)

MareofBeasttown · 08/08/2021 09:02

@FromEden

It most certainly is other people's business when it concerns a deadly disease that's highly contagious and you may have to work or be in close contact with that person

The vaccines don't stop transmission. The cdc have come out and said as much link

So, what does it matter? Everyone can spread this virus if they are infected with it, vaccinated or not.

(Maybe the AZ one used in the UK is different but it's my understanding that they are the same technology, just different vectors)

This has been repeated ad nauseum on here, and its wrong. If you read more about the CDC report, you will find that vaxxed people are less likely to get Covid, and therefore less likely to transmit it. If you don't have it, you can't transmit it! The media coverage of this has focused on the wrong headline.
FromEden · 08/08/2021 09:10

Exactly, if you don't have it you can't transmit it. The mere act of being unvaccinated equates to superspreader in the minds of many on here though.

I know it's anecdotal, but based on what I'm seeing around me, vaccinated are just as likely to get it. It's rampant among vaccinated people where I am.

Lucyccfc68 · 08/08/2021 09:15

I have had the vaccine and so have all my friends do (with no side effects). I only know one person who has refused, so I’m not sure how wide spread this is.

The person I know who has not been vaccinated has said that she has read all the information about it on Facebook and has made an informed choice. She is lovely - but I just roll my eyes at her listening to Keith and Karen on FB who think they are experts.

MareofBeasttown · 08/08/2021 09:16

@FromEden

Exactly, if you don't have it you can't transmit it. The mere act of being unvaccinated equates to superspreader in the minds of many on here though.

I know it's anecdotal, but based on what I'm seeing around me, vaccinated are just as likely to get it. It's rampant among vaccinated people where I am.

Anecdotal advice is dangerous and pointless. The data shows vaccinated people are FAR less likely to get it. Nobody makes scientific decisions on the basis of anecdotes, or we wouldn't even have the polio vaccine.
FromEden · 08/08/2021 09:22

I'm not giving advice. I already decided to hold out for novavax if I can. Don't really care what anyone else does. Why do you?

MareofBeasttown · 08/08/2021 09:24

You are saying vaccinated people are as likely to get and transmit Covid as the unvaxxed. Do what you want, but I do care about misinformation.

Farevalah · 08/08/2021 09:26

I had the Pfizer vax. After the first one I got really painful swollen glands all over which lasted a few weeks. I was fine after the second.

However, 13yo DS won't be getting it if he's offered. I don't think enough is known about any long term problems in that age group.

Bobopalooza · 08/08/2021 09:30

@Dayofpeace

I haven’t got it because we don’t know what the future health implications are. It is a new biotechnology, never used before, with no long term safety data. It is currently used only under an Emergency Use Authorisation and has not completed even intermediate term safety trials. The mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to manufacture the spike protein which your cells would never do naturally. It appears that those spike proteins accumulate in disparate areas of the body and can cross the blood/brain barrier. The future affects of this cannot be known for some time. There are potential concerns for the individual of antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), and prions disease. For society, there is the very real risk that mass roll-out of “leaky” vaccines (those that do not provide sterile immunity) may enable more severe virus mutations through greater viral “challenges”, and a wiser approach is to vaccinate only the vulnerable.

Vaccination makes little sense for those at low risk from Covid. The risk / benefit balance is wrong.

With regard to vaccination for others or “the greater good”, vaccinated people still catch Covid and still shed the same amount of virus to others. So one person’s vaccine will not protect another person, despite all the virtue-signalling that it will.

Further, I am concerned what kind of morality suggests that young people should en masse receive a new biotech vaccine with no long term safety data in order to protect the elderly? We older people should always protect the young, not vice versa.

Finally, on the topic of social exclusion and coercion, the right to bodily autonomy and free and informed medical consent was recognised and laid out under the Nuremberg code after the atrocities of medical experimentation during WW2. The world is currently at great risk of forever damaging that fundamental ethical medical principle.

Having said all that, I’d be prepared to have an “old style” vaccination like the coming Novovax, but that isn’t a choice atm.

Brilliant post.

You have summed up, much more eloquently than I'm able to, everything I wanted to say.

Thank you.

FromEden · 08/08/2021 09:33

You are saying vaccinated people are as likely to get and transmit Covid as the unvaxxed

I mean, I clearly prefaced it with the disclaimer that it's anecdotal and based on what I'm experiencing, nowhere did I state it as fact but, ok. 👍

"Our vaccines are working exceptionally well," Walensky told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death -- they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."

That was the CDC director btw