Should I tell her?

[Pollypocket89]

I probably am being unreasonable but I'm exhausted and angry

My lovely friend found out she was the other woman last night after being very much in love for 13 months. Obviously that's over and she's devastated. She's promised him she won't tell his girlfriend as he threatened to harm himself

I've been cheated on and I'm furious on both their behalf. I don't want to cause trouble and I'll probably be told its not my business but I would want to know myself
Do I tell her?

Would you want to be told? Whatever that answer is, is what you should do. Follow your gut, don't follow other peoples advice who isn't in this situation

@farmhouseloving

Would you want to be told? Whatever that answer is, is what you should do. Follow your gut, don't follow other peoples advice who isn't in this situation

What an astonishingly strange view. You know that everyone isn't the same, right? What you want might not be what someone else wants?

Yours is an incredibly egotistical way to think.

@saraclara would you want to be told the truth about your husband?

[quote farmhouseloving]@saraclara would you want to be told the truth about your husband?[/quote]
I don't have one. He died.

But if such a situation had occurred back when he was here (which it never would have), I absolutely wouldn't want some stranger to come out of the blue, drop this bomb and then disappear.

If a friend who cared for me plucked up the courage to tell me, or even if the OW did, it would be a different matter. Both could either support me or at least answer my questions. A random busy body who thinks she's 'doing her duty' could fuck right off.

@saraclara so if the only person who would have told you was a stranger you would rather have it been kept as a secret?? So he can carry on doing it behind your back??

I think the problem with not being close enough to the situation but still poking your nose in is, if the woman wants questions answered or needs information, you don’t have it firsthand. And you can’t give it to her without involving other people who may not want to be involved.

So you’ve dropped her into a world of pain and deception, but she doesn’t even have the full picture to make proper decisions with. I agree, if you do this you don’t really care about her, you just want to hurt him and she’s just collateral damage.

My ex told me when he cheated, or I found out on his phone. It was hard enough knowing, but if the OW had told me or a concerned friend I would have felt so much more humiliated and pressured to make certain decisions. I’m glad that ultimately all discussions were solely between the both of us.

@Pollypocket89

Oh I wouldn't do it without telling or talking to my friend first

She wants to tell her but said she couldn't as if he did hurt himself because of her she couldn't cope

Threatening suicide is a manipulation. Let him face the music, your close friend was hurt badly by him plus his unsuspecting partner should know that he has been doing this.

[quote farmhouseloving]@saraclara so if the only person who would have told you was a stranger you would rather have it been kept as a secret?? So he can carry on doing it behind your back??[/quote]
She wouldn't want an unconnected stranger getting involved. Neither would I. Or many other people.

You don't have to like that or understand it. But knowing it's how many people feel, it takes some arrogance to assume you know better and should do it anyway.

And all this arguing with people who feel that way, trying to make them feel "wrong", is just further proof that it's nothing to do with helping the wife or what she wants. It's purely about trying to get her to do what you want, when you don't even know her. Purely about your own gratification because you don't like cheaters.

Hell, one of the loudest advocates for telling admits she doesn't understand the consequences or why it matters, but she sure knows she's right because she personally feels totally justified!

[quote farmhouseloving]@saraclara would you want to be told the truth about your husband?[/quote]
I'm not Saraclara, but I wouldn't want to be told the truth about my husband by a total stranger.

It would turn my life upside down, and that of my children's. If I was to hear that news I would want to hear it from someone who genuinely loves and cares for me and understands what that news would actually mean for me and our family.

I would not want to hear it from someone I do not know and have no idea about their motives and what is or isn't true.

U2 Of course that would be ideal. But in a situation where noone you love either knows our is willing to tell you, what is your preference between continuing to live in ignorance and your DH continuing to chat behind your back vs being told by a stranger?

As I think that's the situation the OP is in.

@ByWayOf

U2 Of course that would be ideal. But in a situation where noone you love either knows our is willing to tell you, what is your preference between continuing to live in ignorance and your DH continuing to chat behind your back vs being told by a stranger?

As I think that's the situation the OP is in.

OP isn't in that situation as it is not her relationship. She is not the OW. She is seeing her friend hurting and wanting the man who hurt her to suffer consequences. That is understandable, but she isn't really caring about his girlfriend.

Id like to think that if my husband was having a 13 month affair I would have some inkling. There would be a lot of changes in his behaviour for a start (like suddenly going out more when he previously didn't socialise much at all). I don't think I would be living in ignorance for too long and I would rather figure it out myself then have some stranger I don't know if I can trust insert themselves into my life.

@ByWayOf

U2 Of course that would be ideal. But in a situation where noone you love either knows our is willing to tell you, what is your preference between continuing to live in ignorance and your DH continuing to chat behind your back vs being told by a stranger?

As I think that's the situation the OP is in.

No, it's not the situation OP is in. OP isn't the wife or the OW and she's got no connection to the situation. Being the unwitting OW's friend isn't enough. She is a stranger to these people and it is absolutely not her business to insert herself. She should support her friend, and nothing more.

People have told you and others over and over again that they want to hear it from a close friend or relative, or nobody at all. If you really are motivated by what's best for the wife, you'll accept that rather than constantly trying to question them until they give the answer you clearly want. As it is, you're just proving that it's your own personal feelings that you're prioritising here, not the wellbeing of strangers. Once you know that many people don't want your involvement and do not consent to it, why wouldn't you just butt out unless you really are involved enough to know what they'd want, and to be a support after you've told them?

Wives and families are not collateral damage for the revenge wish fulfilment of strangers. It's horrible.

Hello again, DrS. I wasn't asking you - I know your feelings perfectly well.

I was interested to know U2's thoughts about whether they would rather know from a stranger (such as the OP is to the girlfriend) or no-one at all.

U2 lives in hope that they would figure it out themselves but doesn't actually answer the question, which is fair enough. It's an uncomfortable and difficult proposition if you're adverse to bring told by a stranger but also wouldn't want to be cheated on behind your back. Unfortunately, in reality, many people do live in ignorance for many years without cottoning on so I do think it is a relevant question.

Incidentally, DrS, and in case I've been misunderstood, if I knew someone like you who absolutely wouldn't want to be told even if the consequences were being deceived forevermore, I certainly would never go against their wishes and inform them.

The difficulty is that the OP had no idea which camp the girlfriend falls into.

And to be clear, what many people (including me) want or would want is to be told. By anyone. To stop them wasting any more of their lives. I actually wouldn't care what the motivation of the person telling me was (though it may affect how profusely I thank them!), because I'd just want to know.

Not wanting to be told isn't the default just because it's how you feel.

Again, I say that this is why it's such an invidious position to be put in, because you can't do right for doing wrong.

I would, however, venture to say that yours is the more unusual position and so the odds of doing the right thing in the mind of the wronged partner are likely to fall on the side of telling her.

So equally you could say, why wouldn't you tell someone unless you're close enough to know that they wouldn't want that?

Difficult one. I see why people would say nothing to do with you and move on, but I have had too many friends who have had their lives badly damaged by such a cheating fuckwit as this. He is buying a house with his girlfriend?... what a shit. I would be curious as to why your friend agreed not to tell his partner. I suspect he begged and emotionally blackmailed her not to do this... something like it was a blip it will never happen again, you will really hurt her etc? I would have this discussion with her and strongly encourage her to speak to his partner, or allow you to. I would back it up with evidence if you have any.

@ByWayOf

Incidentally, DrS, and in case I've been misunderstood, if I knew someone like you who absolutely wouldn't want to be told even if the consequences were being deceived forevermore, I certainly would never go against their wishes and inform them.

The difficulty is that the OP had no idea which camp the girlfriend falls into.

Which is why the saying "first, do no harm" applies so much here. You say "Not wanting to be told isn't the default just because it's how you feel", but it's not because that's how I feel. It's because your first move should be to do no harm. And if you're not close enough to know if you will or not, then don't!

I know you weren't asking me, but a) it's an open and public discussion and b) it's another example of people asking extremely leading questions designed to get the other person to say that actually they do want you to tell them.

I do appreciate how frustrating it is when a woman appears to you to be allowing a POS man to get away with it. But things are often more complicated than they seem to an outsider, especially a stranger, and these are very personal and life changing decisions. If you're not in any way connected to the situation or the people, it's just not up to you to do it.

It’s not your business and tbh she probably knows already. He sounds like an absolute dreamboat and your friend is well out of it. Help your friend get over it /,take her out , encourage her to join a dating site , book a weekend away hiking …what ever it takes her to get over that sociopath. Walk away from the situation…. What do you hope achieve by getting involved? He’s a waste of skin - just move on.

DrS I think we're going round in circles here, but I'll just say two things:

1. The first is that we disagree about what constitutes "doing no harm". If someone knew and didn't tell me in order to give me proper agency over my own life, I would consider them to be doing harm to me. Not least because as and when I do find out, I'll lose my trust not only in my partner but in all those around me who knew and did nothing to help me protect myself. As much harm as the person who cheated on the first place? Certainly not. But doing me harm by their silence when they could make another choice? Yes. You have a different view. But given both perspectives exist, there is no real neutral or "no harm" option here.

1. I say this because for some reason you don't accept that people who would want to tell or be told are not necessarily acting out of a desire to punish the cheater or frustration at the deceived partner not leaving. That is not my motive. If the deceived partner knew and decided to take no further action at all, and the cheating partner suffered nothing for their actions I would be absolutely content with that. That would be the absolute choice and right of the person deceived and no judgement or frustration from my end. Similarly, I might choose not to leave for very valid reasons of my own. But I and they have been given proper agency and clear-eyed choice over their own lives. I cannot agree that it's right to participate in a serious deception of someone else on the basis that "they might be happier not knowing" unless you actually know they are ok being lied to by action or omission (which I would say is unusual).

As I said, if I found out your husband was cheating on you, I absolutely wouldn't tell you or get involved in any way because I know that you are someone who wouldn't want to know. I find that unusual but I respect your wishes and would leave you to find out on your own, or not, as fate dictates.

As a rule, though, I won't participate in lying to someone about the fundamental foundations of their life because I think it's wrong, morally dubious and ultimately damaging.

We disagree. That's fine.

If you see my husband snogging someone else, give me a heads up, though, please!

I wouldn’t be informing on any strangers

I have no idea what is going on in their lives, I’m not there to help pick up the pieces. There could be other issues, illness, loss of job, family illness or death, miscarriage (or pregnancy), concerns over child’s health

Are you going to be there to help the person you feel you have apparently allowed to make an informed decision (and that’s assuming they have not worked if out for themselves)

It’s nothing to do with allowing another to make an informed decision if they are a stranger to you you are not aware if they do know s about you feeling you are doing the right thing 😇

To the women who post that if their partner was having an affair they would know. Sometimes yes, and sometimes know. if a partner works away a lot anyway, or works unsociable hours which do not align with your own, it is quite possible that you can be wholly deceived. Throw in that you trust your partner and think they have the best motives you do not get suspicious perhaps for quite some time... and then the walls come tumbling down. It feels like everything you have ever done is a lie and has been a waste of time. It is the most horrid of feelings.

sorry should be no.

"We're going round in circles" immediately followed by a lengthy post. Either accept that you're at least as invested in your view as I am in mine or jump off the roundabout.

I'll lose my trust not only in my partner but in all those around me who knew

A stranger would not be around you. That's the entire point. That's the huge difference between learning that someone you don't know is having an affair, and learning that your sister or best friend's husband is.

But given both perspectives exist, there is no real neutral or "no harm" option here.

Withholding your active and unsolicited input into a stranger's life is certainly closer to it. At the very least, you have not made things worse for anyone.

you don't accept that people who would want to tell or be told are not necessarily acting out of a desire to punish the cheater or frustration at the deceived partner not leaving. That isnotmy motive...If the deceived partner knew and decided to take no further action at all, and the cheating partner suffered nothing for their actions I would be absolutely content with that.

Who cares what you're contented with regarding someone else's life? The fact that you're saying things like this and asking emotive leading questions of other people who feel differently betrays the personal investment you've got in what other people do. Like the woman who said she would be OK if I hated her for it, as if HER feeling fine with it is the deciding factor!

Besides, won't they feel stressed and pressured knowing you're out there and presumably continuing to watch their life to see what they do?

I and they have been given proper agency and clear-eyed choice over their own lives.

Their own lives, nothing to do with you. You have no way of knowing that they don't already have this clear eyed agency or that they consent for you to appoint yourself their informational aid. You do not know anything. You are making unilateral decisions for people people do not know.

Like the woman who invented the girlfriend "torturing herself". She doesn't know what the girlfriend thinks!

I cannot agree that it's right to participate in a serious deception of someone else..I won't participate in lying

You're not participating! You have no connection to it! You would participate if you blundered in!

I knew a man at my old office was having an affair with a co worker (co worker saw the emails). I think I spoke to him maybe three times, brief work conversations, nothing more. I could have looked up his home contact details on the system (I didn't even know what city he lived in or if he had any kids) and somehow informed his wife, whose name and face I didn’t know, who had no idea I existed. I didn't. Should I have? Was I "participating"?

They divorced soon after anyway.

We disagree. That's fine.

Why, thank you.

Right-o, DrS. I disagree with the vast majority of what you're saying and always will.

Thanks for the chat.

@ByWayOf

Right-o, DrS. I disagree with the vast majority of what you're saying and always will.

Thanks for the chat.

Wait, one last question. You've given me permission to tell tell if I see your husband kissing someone else. Given that I don't give you permission to tell me the same, and you have no idea who I am, how will you know not to do it if you see him?