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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To leave dd to cry?

162 replies

Lavendarsaturation · 06/08/2021 20:18

I’m really struggling with dd, 5, at bedtime.
She doesnt ever want to sleep until really late, her pattern naturally would be 10.30pm - 8.30am and in the holidays she sometimes slips to 11pm to 9am.
I’ve started waking her up at 7am in the hope she will go off earlier. She is really busy in the day but she just never stops.
It’s taking me two to three hours every evening to get her to bed. I’m a single mum and it’s driving me crazy. I don’t have any break ever.
She was up at 7am today and has been out all day. I took her up at 7.30 and she is still wide awake but screams if I leave the room saying she is scared. I am having to take calming breaths because I’m really close to losing it. I have another older dc who spends the evening sat on their own.
It’s making me feel a huge amount of resentment towards dd. I have tried:
Talking to her about it
Special worry eater toy
Special soft light
White noise
Stories
Gentle music
Total silence
Darkness
Lavender spray
Warm bath

NOTHING makes any difference at all. I feel like 2-3 hours a night is crazy and frankly it is ruining my life. I know that sounds over the top but I’m tired! I get to 8pm and I think most children her age would just go to sleep, especially as she is really busy most days. I resent my whole evening being eaten up by sitting next to her waiting for her to go to sleep.
AIBU to now just leave her to cry?

OP posts:
NavigatingAdolescence · 06/08/2021 22:48

@suspiria777

Perhaps you could try putting her in her room and telling her she has to stay there because it's bedtime, but without insisting that she sleep if she says she isn't tired? She can either read (silently to herself) or sleep. No chatting. No crying (if she cries, ignore -- reading a book isn't scary or worth crying over, and needn't be pandered to.

That's what my mum used to do when I wouldn't go to bed. Read or sleep.

Did she do that when your dad left 3 weeks ago?

Pandering. Hmm

marly11 · 06/08/2021 22:50

Have you tried a weighted blanket? My DS was not like this as he didn't require me to stay with him, but nevertheless never settled until late - this has helped him. Might be worth a try. We have a koala weighted blanket. It's made him feel much more settled.

suspiria777 · 06/08/2021 22:56

@marly11

Have you tried a weighted blanket? My DS was not like this as he didn't require me to stay with him, but nevertheless never settled until late - this has helped him. Might be worth a try. We have a koala weighted blanket. It's made him feel much more settled.
I like this idea
Nowhereelsetogo90 · 06/08/2021 23:06

I was like this - been a night owl literally since birth and my poor Mum was demented! Eventually when I was about 5 or 6 we just made a rule that from 8pm I had to be in my room and quiet. I’d read or listen to tapes or play Barbies calmly and go to sleep about 10-11pm. But DM and DF still got evening time without all the stress. Some people just aren’t early bedders. (Still an owl at 31, natural pattern would be midnight or one til eight or nine. Work dictates 11-7ish though!)

Twokitstwokats · 06/08/2021 23:25

Reward chart. I have only ever used them for this. Not for kind behaviour, that should be instrinsic. But one tick for going to bed nicely, one for staying in bed all night long, one for no noise. At the end of a week she can have a lollipop for 10 ticks, a magazine for 20. At the end of the month she can have a prize. I was amazed how well this worked. And lasted. We did the chart for a few weeks and never again.

DinkyDiggies · 06/08/2021 23:52

Hmm... tough one. If she’s not sleeping, but you need space for you, what about a TV/ DVD player and just let her watch a suitable film until she drops off. It’s not great sleep hygiene, but many children do find the sound /light soothing.
We used to have ‘loser time’ as my daughter used to call it. Namely anything after about 7:30 is adult time, make a pest of yourself it’s bedtime, off you go... but play quiet, not bother mum, you can stay up longer. Maybe drop some of the routine- which isn’t working, let her stay up later and then give something to entertain self in room with.

Redarrow2017 · 07/08/2021 02:49

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

NotThatSocial · 07/08/2021 02:55

My 5 year old is the same. No matter what we've done in the day, or what time she's got up, she simply isn't tired until at least 10pm. She's always been the same. I've tried a couple of times (consistently, for a couple of weeks at a time) to get her to bed earlier but it's a waste of time. I've just resigned myself to not getting evenings to myself and taking her to bed at 9.

icedcoffees · 07/08/2021 06:49

You can't force someone to sleep if they're not tired and there's nothing worse than lying in bed wide awake, especially if someone is upset or wound up because you're not sleeping when they want you to.

7pm bedtimes are a very British phenomenon - in many other countries they go to bed much, much later.

I would just let her stay up - if she's not tired, she's not tired. At five she can be left in front of a Disney film or TV show with her sibling while you have a bath, cook dinner or phone your mum - she doesn't need to be supervised 24/7, surely?

I would sort her dinner, get her bathed and into PJ's and then let her just chill. She could read, watch some TV, colour, play with her toys etc.

There's no law that says 5yos have to be in bed early - if she can't sleep you can't force it. Don't get yourself stressed over something you can't control!

littlebilliie · 07/08/2021 08:02

I think I would start the conversation away from bedtime, go to her room and change anything she is worried about.

I would talk about a new routine ie reading with her and leaving her to play or colour in bed for 30-45 min before bed. I would also have a star chart with a 3 day reward. Make it positive. My DCs always had time in bed reading or drawing as it helped them relax.

WetWeekends · 07/08/2021 10:23

@Summerfun54321

I haven’t long split from her dad and I’m inclined to be indulgent but then I think it’ll fall into this pattern forever and she’s never been brilliant.

She’s 5, she’s scared and she’s lost her daddy (temporarily but does she actually understand that he may be back on the scene?!). I would stop worrying about “making a rod for your own back” and do whatever works in the short term to keep you and her happy and sane. Like letting her watch tv or letting her fall asleep in your bedroom or the lounge before moving her up to her own bed. Then when contact with her dad is established and settled, worry about bedtimes then.

I agree with this. Would it help if you make a plan so you know it is temporary? Have you got any annual leave spare that you could use to take a day a week for a month to have time for you while she’s at her childminder? I’d also look at signs for Autism and ADHD just in case. My DC is Autistic and is constantly on the go. Does she make eye contact easily? Does she flap her hands when she’s excited or upset? Does she see things very literally? If you said “I’ll do it in a minute” would she point out that you’d only been 20 seconds, not a minute for example?
Treaclepie19 · 07/08/2021 10:36

I have a feeling the OP didn't actually want suggestions or advice 🙄

ViceLikeBlip · 07/08/2021 10:38

Oh bless you. Firstly, carve out some "downtime" for yourself during the day. Like, get up, have breakfast, take kids out somewhere active but not exhausting (a walk, the park, jumping in puddles given the current weather!) come home, bit of lunch, then everyone has at least an hour chill out time. Kids have screen time, you do whatever you want (bath, TV, phone a friend, whatever). And because they've had no screen time in the morning, and they're pleasantly tired from a moderate activity, and they're well fed, they're likely to give you an hour's peace.

Then in the afternoon do something togetehr- another short excursion, an activity like painting or something, a board game if you're feeling brave, or just that awful thing where you have to play paw patrol for an hour (seriously, I hate playing those sorts of games!)

Then they can watch a bit more TV while you get the tea ready, and after tea everything has to be calm. Start bath time as soon as tea is finished, so you can do it as slowly and calmly as you need. Just one or two stories after bath, then bed. I personally sit with mine, but if there's any pissing about I walk out. And I'm soft, so I give them lots of chances- I keep going back in, and I'll stay as long as they're lying quietly in bed, but any chatting, or getting up, or even sitting up playing teddies, I walk out again. No idea if this is the "right thing" to do, but it's a compromise that works for me xx

WoMandalorian · 07/08/2021 11:20

I know this may sound weird but would a baby video monitor help if you could talk to her through it? So you could talk through the monitor saying you can see her and you're right there if she needs you?
If not can it be timed? Can you say to her "I am going to quietly whisper your bed time story to you, and I will lay here for 10 minutes, but then I have to go and do X. If you want mummy to be here when you fall asleep then you have to sleep after your story."?
It sounds so tiring and I'd also be inclined to buy and attach a baby gate to her door if she continued. Hope you find something that works 💐

budgun · 07/08/2021 11:33

I have 2 minimal sleepers and the best piece of advice I can give is that you change your expectations. Sometimes you have to do things differently, rather then what you think a 5 year old should be doing. I don't really have any practical advice - my eldest was in the midst of this when I realised myself I had to change my own expectations of the outcome rather than try to fit him into a box. My younger one just stayed with us in the evenings. It meant we couldn't watch certain TV but overall it wasn't the worst experience and she is now in a routine of going up at 9:30 and lights off when we go to bed at midnight, so we have clawed back some time and she gets to read/draw/watch TV. It goes against all the 'advice' but it works for us.

HastaLaVistaBebe · 07/08/2021 11:48

That sounds really tough OP. My DD (now eight) is very similar and always has been, just doesn't get tired and major antics around bedtime since forever. It makes no difference if we wake her up early or are out all day.

The only thing that has helped is now that she can read, she will read for an hour or so and then go to sleep. That has given us a bit of an evening back. Appreciate independent reading of chapter books might still be a way off, but could she look through easier / picture books? Apologies if you've tried this already.

ODFOD21 · 07/08/2021 11:55

Strict bedtime routine starting attached 5.30/6pm....Bath time with herbal sleepy stuff, PJs and teeth, choose teddy bear of the night to cuddle, stories (no more than 3 short ones, she picks and NO TALKING RULE), lullaby's while you stroke her eyes/forehead/bridge of nose downwards, NO TALKING RULE. Stay until asleep first week. Then it's the sleep training method of slow retreat, move to edge of room,then outside Room, then top of stairs etc....then start to drop the eye stroking. And use a sticker chart to show progress to work towards a weekend treat. Be really excited about the new routine, all day before it starts, really big it up.

Eatenpig · 07/08/2021 17:35

@DontWannaBeObamasElf

We had this issue for years. My daughter is 8 and has recently been diagnosed with ADHD. Her pediatrician prescribed her melatonin because no matter what time she woke up she would be up until at least 10 not able to switch off. It's been a miracle worker. Although her little sister is now carrying the torch for bedtime capers Angry
My friend was similar with her DD. It's been life changing. Speak to GP
Eatenpig · 07/08/2021 17:38

Try audiobooks. Tell her to lie in bed and listen to story. Then be consistent about leaving

MintyGreenDream · 07/08/2021 17:52

I would sit her down at a time.other than bedtime and say dd when it's bedtime it's time for sleep.I will.NOT be coming in once I've left the room.
Might give her time to process that before night time comes.Good luck.

lannistunut · 07/08/2021 18:03

Strict bedtime routine starting attached 5.30/6pm

This is a completely ridiculous idea for a child who naturally doesn't sleep until after 9pm - why on earth would you devote the entire period from 5:30 to 9:00 to arguing about sleeping???

Eatenpig · 07/08/2021 18:20

Bath at 7.30 better. With relaxing crystals in. Leave her there and do some jobs? Out at 8pm. Into bed. 10 min story turn left with an audiobook would be my choice. But depends if she'll self entertain at all. ADHD and ADD can present very differently in girls.
It does also sound a bit like a control issue. She is trying to control what's going on. That's a sign of insecurity.
Could she choose elements of it?

  • bath time ( 7/7.15/7.30)
  • what story
  • what audio book
  • which xyz

Different idea? Could you'd older child sit outside her room? Maybe on their tablet / reading a book etc
Is she jealous that she's the only on upstairs?

Eatenpig · 07/08/2021 18:24

OP you have my sympathy BTW.
Mine both play up till 11pm in bouts. It sends me to breaking point too. Relentless. Hence why they get left with audiobooks and really told off now if they keep getting up.

RandomMess · 07/08/2021 18:26

Have you tried her with an audio book to listen to?

If her natural sleep rhythm is 10.30 it's going to take time to adjust tbh.

olderthanyouthink · 07/08/2021 19:10

My 2.5 year old is averaging 10 hours sleep a day (not many naps), some kids don't need much sleep. She's ready for bed after 11/12 hours and will only sleep 10 hours in average so the schedule is a bit wobbly, we've tried to fix it and the best we can do is kinda hold it to an hour or so hours either way so bedtime is somewhere between 7 and 9.

DD just went to sleep but she really has needed a nap for the last few days but we've not managed it so she is very tired and she's up a lot in the night (new baby, unsettled). By 5 I'd expect her to be on even less sleep and therefore a later bedtime.

It takes about 2 weeks for a change to work, she was getting up at 4/5am and it took two weeks of being really consistent and her getting more and more tired to sort that and even then it went back really easily. You cant chop and change and expect it to just work.

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