To leave dd to cry?

[Lavendarsaturation]

I’m really struggling with dd, 5, at bedtime.
She doesnt ever want to sleep until really late, her pattern naturally would be 10.30pm - 8.30am and in the holidays she sometimes slips to 11pm to 9am.
I’ve started waking her up at 7am in the hope she will go off earlier. She is really busy in the day but she just never stops.
It’s taking me two to three hours every evening to get her to bed. I’m a single mum and it’s driving me crazy. I don’t have any break ever.
She was up at 7am today and has been out all day. I took her up at 7.30 and she is still wide awake but screams if I leave the room saying she is scared. I am having to take calming breaths because I’m really close to losing it. I have another older dc who spends the evening sat on their own.
It’s making me feel a huge amount of resentment towards dd. I have tried:
Talking to her about it
Special worry eater toy
Special soft light
White noise
Stories
Gentle music
Total silence
Darkness
Lavender spray
Warm bath

NOTHING makes any difference at all. I feel like 2-3 hours a night is crazy and frankly it is ruining my life. I know that sounds over the top but I’m tired! I get to 8pm and I think most children her age would just go to sleep, especially as she is really busy most days. I resent my whole evening being eaten up by sitting next to her waiting for her to go to sleep.
AIBU to now just leave her to cry?

I dont know but if I don’t get some space from somewhere at some point soon I’m going to have some sort of breakdown.

I’m lying on the floor. She is lying in the bed. She keeps sitting up and sighing dramatically.

Just ignore and keep your eyes on your phone.
It isn't cruel.
You are with her.

Walk out of the room. You don't need to be there. You're in the house, she is safe and you need your sanity.

Use this time to pick your strategy and stick to it.

I’d quite often like to be in bed asleep by 11pm myself really!
She’d basically go to bed later than me, given the choice.

@Lavendarsaturation

I dont know but if I don’t get some space from somewhere at some point soon I’m going to have some sort of breakdown.

What would happen if you just let her stay downstairs?

Do you need space, or do you need peace?

Because what you are doing now is giving you neither.

I can hear how hard it is

Why haven't you tackled this sooner? My dd was similar in that she wanted one of us to lie with her to get her off to sleep and because we had another child close in age we indulged her but it got to the point where most of your evening got taken up and then we were both too knackered to spend any time together. At age 2 we tackled it by getting her in her own room and having a strict sleep routine. She thankfully cracked it quickly but it was hard at first. We then did the same with ds. It is obviously easier when you have a partner who will pull their weight. Could you reach out to her health visitor or a gp to get some guidance on how to sleep train a child her age?

Haven't read all your posts but at 5 and a half you could suggest to her that you read to her for 20 minutes, snuggles in her bed, then she has 20 minutes of a story CD.... And then if she goes to sleep all night by herself and no wake ups then she earns herself...... A reward that works for her... 50p a day pocket money, gadget time or something? Get it on her terms as a reward and show her she is capable....

Honestly op try the meditation i posted. It can't hurt surely? I was at this point just a month ago.

Think how great it'll be when you can have a nice early night.

@Treaclepie19

Honestly op try the meditation i posted. It can't hurt surely? I was at this point just a month ago.

Yes, this would be nothing lost thing to try.

I just need to know, that come the evening, I’ve got an hour or so where if I want to call a friend or look at stuff to do with the split, or sort out finances, or any of the boring adult stuff that needs doing, I can do.
Because I’m just getting NO TIME at the moment.

This is a tough one op, you need alone time to to re charge your own batteries.

Yes lots of good but differing advice.
Does she /will she listen to stories.... Read books, colour... Sticker books?
Can you bribe her with anything, where is wally book, give her calm stuff to do her choosing as well and then say If she just stays calm and doesn't cry, she can choose larger gift first week?
Encourage some pottering in there? So it's not door shut go to sleep sort of thing that might make her panicking?

Talk to her and tell her what you would like her to do.
First of all not to cry, so when mummy goes you'll listen to story or colour.. And mummy will come back in 20 mins to see if your OK..

That sort of thing but what I wouldn't do is leave to cry or be stern or hard.

I haven’t long split from her dad and I’m inclined to be indulgent but then I think it’ll fall into this pattern forever and she’s never been brilliant.

She’s 5, she’s scared and she’s lost her daddy (temporarily but does she actually understand that he may be back on the scene?!). I would stop worrying about “making a rod for your own back” and do whatever works in the short term to keep you and her happy and sane. Like letting her watch tv or letting her fall asleep in your bedroom or the lounge before moving her up to her own bed. Then when contact with her dad is established and settled, worry about bedtimes then.

Maybe just for now the thing to do would be to stop banging your head on the same wall.

I'm sure you'll get that op but it may take two weeks work to get there.

Would she sleep in your bed? Would it reassure her to know that you would be with her later? It may seem like you'd get even less time/space to yourself or it could give you a few hours to yourself in the evening if she went to sleep more easily. Or having her stay up longer with your other DC on the proviso that you can get on with what you need to do

You're going to have to put effort in to get what you want. Short term it will be worse than the current situation, but long term it will pay off.

Pick a routine, stick to it for 2 weeks. No messing, no engaging with her after a certain time, then see what she's like. It will be harder than what you are doing now. But it will be worth it.

Agree ian.

It seems more like the case of having peace to me thence suggesting to simply encourage some peaceful pottering... Without lights out this is it.

I have was slap going to suggest same bed..

It sounds so tough, my heart goes out to you.

But I don’t think leaving her to cry it out is the answer either, particularly in these circumstances. Her dad has abandoned her. She’s testing you to see if you’ll abandon her too. She’s unlikely to be aware of that but that’s what it boils down to.

At 5 she should be old enough for a sensible chat about what she is thinking when she’s screaming like that, and that it’s really got to stop. But also let her know in no uncertain terms that you won’t be leaving. This needs saying.

What I’d probably do is establish a firm bedtime routine - bath, pjs, teeth, one book, hug. And then no talking! But agree this with her. If a reward chart is helpful, use one, but be sure she understands what is required. It’s more likely to succeed if she has a sense of contributing to the solution.

Sit in the doorway with your book or tablet and wait. It’s going to take a bit of time, but it won’t be forever.

It’s really not helpful to think about her controlling you, in an equivalent way to domestic abuse. I sympathise with the feeling, but thinking like that isn’t going to help you. It’s better to see her a vulnerable girl trying to rebuild her foundations.

Let the house be a tip for a while. We can hire cleaners to sort a physical mess but it isn’t as simple to clean up emotional messes or build relationships.

Just to give a completely opposite view point...you could stop doing a bedtime routine in her room and let her stay downstairs with you?

Plenty of cultures don't enforce strict bedtimes for DC and they turn out fine (I'm not English but live in the UK.)

Do the usual bedtime stuff like shower/teeth/pjs and a story then let her stay on the sofa with you as long as she stays quiet and watches something (age appropriate) that you like. Then put her to put her to bed at 9.30/10 and she'll (hopefully) be asleep straight away.

My DS1 is 5 and sounds a lot like your DD, I start doing bedtime at 8 and usually have him asleep by 9.30/occasionally 10 without any stress.

(We live next door to school so he gets 10-10.5h sleep).

You have my full sympathy.
Also single parent. I had exactly this with my youngest for years. Older one missed out and led them to really resent the sibling i got no time to do anything.

Mine is 8 now and it's better. I give activities to do. Dot to dot, puzzle books. All whilst listening to audiobooks.

This works. Happy doing these things.

It's been a long road and I nearly killed me literally. Hope it improves for you soon

If she only needs 10 hours of sleep then can she get up at 6 with you? How much exercise is she getting in the day? Can she up her physical activity quite a bit as well as having a regular 6am waking time? Only other thing I can think of is visiting the GP and asking for a referral to a sleep clinic to get some support to shift things. Are you managing to avoid all screens and stick with good sleep hygiene? Sometimes melatonin can help shift sleep onset difficulties but it’s only given on prescription (it isn’t addictive or anything as it’s what your body produces to regulate your circadian rhythm anyway and in some countries you can buy over the counter kids gummies).

Perhaps you could try putting her in her room and telling her she has to stay there because it's bedtime, but without insisting that she sleep if she says she isn't tired? She can either read (silently to herself) or sleep. No chatting. No crying (if she cries, ignore -- reading a book isn't scary or worth crying over, and needn't be pandered to.

That's what my mum used to do when I wouldn't go to bed. Read or sleep.