Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's rude to juat assume I'll supply a reference?

138 replies

Workyticket · 03/08/2021 16:54

I'm a teacher in FE. I've been off on leave - returning next week so thought I'd log in and clear the crap put of my inbox today.

There are 5 reference requests from ex (adult) students. Only 1 has asked me first before putting my name forward.

I only teach a gcse re-sit subjects do I'm not the "go to" professional reference person

One company has emailed 3x asking for the reference despite my Out of Office stating I'm off until the 12th

When I go back I'm straight back into new student interviews, assessments and training so will struggle to find spare time.

One of the 5 I definitely won't be doing - the student was work why, demanding and always late!

OP posts:
ThePlantsitter · 03/08/2021 16:58

I get you've got loads on, but this is part of the job. It's possible people who've had to resit GCSEs don't have the cultural knowledge that you should ask first before naming a referee (and sometimes it isn't the done thing anyway). You could really make a difference to those people's lives by doing it.

Elleherd · 03/08/2021 16:59

Any chance someone in your organization or a job center has told them 'you just put your ex teachers name down'?

I know lot's of unsupported students who'd not know who the "go to" professional reference person would be, or that there would be one.

PumpkinPie2016 · 03/08/2021 17:00

YANBU - it's basic manners to ask before putting someone down as a referee!

I hold a leadership role in a school and a supply teacher had put me as a reference without asking! She'd only done a week and a half and I hadn't even seen her teach. I emailed the agency and just said I couldn't provide one.

eurochick · 03/08/2021 17:00

I would have also thought this was part of the job.

Hont1986 · 03/08/2021 17:00

I think it's a bit mean not to, really. If you aren't the go-to person, then if people had anyone better to put down, my guess is they would have.

SuperSange · 03/08/2021 17:02

In the time it took you to type out your post, you could have got it done.

anonforamo · 03/08/2021 17:02

I get these all the time! The way I see it, it's part of the job. I also use it as a learning opportunity. Typically I email the student if I have their details and tell them how excited I am they are pursuing whatever opportunity this is. I ask them a bit about role/course and then also suggest perhaps reaching our directly to ask if someone would mind being a reference, and tell them that helps me plan what to say and deal with it in a timely manner. This is an impressionable age and a bit of care and encouragement can go a long way.

DDIJ · 03/08/2021 17:04

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

SparklingLime · 03/08/2021 17:05

That’s so lovely, @anonforamo.

DoodleBelle · 03/08/2021 17:06

It’s rude, of course it is, but they are just kids and I agree it’s part of the job really. Perhaps email them to say in future it’s good practice to ask people before using them as a reference so they know for next time. They are still learning how to function as adults. I think it would be very mean spirited to deny any of them a reference and you can use this as a teaching moment.

Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 17:07

They're all students who've messaged me on Teams lots over the last year (except the workshy one and he's from pre-Teams) to ask favours (sorting them car park passes, bus fares etc)

So nothing stopping them dropping me a quick message first to ask if it's OK.

Work shy one sent a line of ??? when I've not responded to his - again, despite my Out of Office

I've written hundreds of references in the past for jobs, uni, status applications etc.

I've no problem doing it but prefer to be askes first.

The job ones can often only be filled in by an employer so a heads up means i can gague my suitability as a reference as well as telling people I'm maybe not the best person if they've been a poor student... gives them chance to ask someone else instead of having to go back to the company or institute

OP posts:
icedcoffees · 03/08/2021 17:08

Isn't it just part of the job?

Yeah, it's nice to be asked but for me I just consider it normal, tbh.

Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 17:08

@SuperSange

In the time it took you to type out your post, you could have got it done.
I'm not working. I can piss about on Mumsnet in my time off if I choose to

Have you ever written 5 references in 5 minutes?

OP posts:
Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 17:09

@Hont1986

I think it's a bit mean not to, really. If you aren't the go-to person, then if people had anyone better to put down, my guess is they would have.
I've not said I'm not going to. I've written lots over the years
OP posts:
Hemingwaycat · 03/08/2021 17:10

Part of the job isn’t it? I do this without thinking now!

Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 17:10

@DoodleBelle

It’s rude, of course it is, but they are just kids and I agree it’s part of the job really. Perhaps email them to say in future it’s good practice to ask people before using them as a reference so they know for next time. They are still learning how to function as adults. I think it would be very mean spirited to deny any of them a reference and you can use this as a teaching moment.
they're adult students
OP posts:
Mpsister · 03/08/2021 17:11

They're not kids, the OP said they're adult students. I think it's rude. I sometimes get emails from ex students telling me that they've given my name as referee. Not asking me, telling me. I think that's even worse

ThePlantsitter · 03/08/2021 17:12

I think you could make it clear they need to talk to you before putting you as a referee at some point during the course if this is a regular occurrence.

Obviously the ??? guy is a twat but you could write him a really enjoyably passive aggressive response about what the accepted method of getting someone to write you a reference is.

Neapolitanicecream · 03/08/2021 17:15

anonforamo - very supportive. Great to know people like you are looking out for the kids. They need all the help they can get this year, presume it’s not Daddy’s friends company as it is round our parts so other kids don’t even get a look in.

Elleherd · 03/08/2021 17:25

It is rude if they know that it is rude. If they simply don't know they are supposed to ask first, then they are ignorant of convention, not intentionally rude.

Demelza82 · 03/08/2021 17:26

@SuperSange

In the time it took you to type out your post, you could have got it done.
This!
NumberTheory · 03/08/2021 17:33

Given they are adults redoing GCSEs you may be a bit unreasonable about them not asking you in advance. I think this depends on what sorts of students you are teaching.

If your students are redoing GCSEs because they didn’t do well in school and haven’t really managed to establish themselves as working adults yet, then I think their actions are down to ignorance and inexperience, not rudeness. And it ought to be part of the FE experience to instill knowledge about how to go about applying for jobs and getting references which would include you being more understanding and letting them know the right way to do stuff.

But if your students are generally already successful in work and are likely doing this GCSE out of personal interest or to further their already established working lives then they really ought to know better and yes, it’s rude.

My teaching friends and family have always talked about writing references as part of the job and specifically talked about the ethical challenges in writing references for students who were not exactly models of diligence or academic excellence. So I think YABU on that front too if you’re talking about a student who is not already established in a career.

ClaudiaWankleman · 03/08/2021 17:39

It is rude if they know that it is rude. If they simply don't know they are supposed to ask first, then they are ignorant of convention, not intentionally rude.

I agree. Presumably these are adults who have taken your class in order to move on in their professional lives, and in all likelihood it's the first time they've been asked to supply a reference - not all jobs would require it and especially not if they don't require GCSE subjects.

It's annoying, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to send emails to your students reminding them they should ask you before putting your name down, but it seems quite petty to just refuse to do it.

As for writing 5 references, you can probably copy paste the structure of the first one and change names and adjectives. They're all going to be asking the same kinds of things (how you know them, how long you knew them, whether you directly supervised them etc).

TableFlowerss · 03/08/2021 17:40

Part of the job surely? Perhaps a bit rude to not ask you first, fair enough, but they probably assume that it’s ok, as they won’t have a long list of suitable referees.

Most places do ask for an academic reference so if you’re a teacher, it stands to reason that this will be included in any teaching role?

memberofthewedding · 03/08/2021 17:42

Its rude of the students but this is probably how their parents have brought them up to be so entitled. It seems that expressions like "please" "excuse me" and "sorry" are now dirty works, not only with the kids but also with parents who never taught their offspring these simple basic skills.

I can think of one business owning colleague who had to choose between two equally well qualified job applicants but selected one because the other was rude to his secretary!

I would make up a basic standard reference and send that off for all the students who failed to ask permission and save your efforts for those who contacted you first.