To think it's rude to juat assume I'll supply a reference?

[Workyticket]

I'm a teacher in FE. I've been off on leave - returning next week so thought I'd log in and clear the crap put of my inbox today.

There are 5 reference requests from ex (adult) students. Only 1 has asked me first before putting my name forward.

I only teach a gcse re-sit subjects do I'm not the "go to" professional reference person

One company has emailed 3x asking for the reference despite my Out of Office stating I'm off until the 12th

When I go back I'm straight back into new student interviews, assessments and training so will struggle to find spare time.

One of the 5 I definitely won't be doing - the student was work why, demanding and always late!

I've had to put people down as referees without checking first because occasionally jobs are really specific as to what category/type of person needs to provide the reference and the people I had lined up didn't meet the criteria. However I have always then sent them an email/message to apologise for the lack of warning anvpd let them know what type of job it is. Because it is rude to put someone's name down without their permission, so the apology was needed.

However, can I just add that my referees wanted to know what jobs I was applying for and honestly I was applying for everything and anything when I first went back into the workforce and it was a bit embarrassing having to say that.

So, if there is anyone in that sort of situation please be a bit understanding. The others who are in the work force seeking promotions and have lots of choice for referees should know better and are being rude twats.

Too late for this year but for next year, try to get a Careers Service session or something similar organised by whoever would be responsible for their transferable skills development. How to write a professional email, writing how to request a reference (make it something like "How to get the best references),...

I have worked at ancient 'posh' universities where most seem to know the etiquette around these things but at the ones where we actually recruit from disadvantages areas, it wasn't common knowledge at all. It is not your circus, so not your monkey, but worth flagging up to the programme co-ordinators this would affect.

And a "this is what your emails to me should look like" slide at the beginning of the year is always helpful - no harm by throwing in an "and if you need a reference, you need to ask me before you put my name down". Otherwise you'll just be annoyed year after year.

Absolutely no judging about what they apply for. I've written references for a huge variety of jobs and courses

I'll definitely pop a slide in about emails etc. There are a few who send ????? an hour after sending a 10pm email or Teams message despite my status always being set to DnD on Teams out of hours.

When we first went onto Teams / online last year I was definitely too available and I had to take a huge step back as I was burning out. 150 students a week is a lot and it really is surprising how demanding some can be.

I've been teaching successfully for years - in some ways it's been like being an nqt the last 2 years as it's been so very different.

Any student who sent me ???? after I hadn't responded in an hour would be ignored for twice as long.

This is a difficult one. As a part time tutor, you see the student (or perhaps not, due to online learning and Covid) for perhaps 2 hours a week, for about twenty weeks. There is not a lot you can say.

Furthermore, many of the references are from employers who use a standard form to ask about absences, trustworthiness, ability to work with children (in some cases), timekeeping and so on. It is hard to say much of any value.

Yet, many of the adult learners may have been unemployed for years and may have no other referees. So, perhaps it is better to say something. It could be a box-ticking exercise, after all.

Yes, it would be preferable if the students asked, but they will have their reasons, perhaps they never expected to be shortlisted.

It is not the job of a tutor to provide employment references.

Did you ask the work shy one first before you slagged him/her in public forum ?

@ThePlantsitter

I get you've got loads on, but this is part of the job. It's possible people who've had to resit GCSEs don't have the cultural knowledge that you should ask first before naming a referee (and sometimes it isn't the done thing anyway). You could really make a difference to those people's lives by doing it.

A perfect post.

OP, perhaps during the course of the academic year, you could explain that it's courtesy to ask in advance. Otherwise, some of your students may not realise

Another perspective, I occasionally apply for roles that interest me. I do ask for referees' permission in advance, but I hate that they know I applied (unless I get it)

I agree its part of the job if you teach them. Even if you just confirm the dates they attended and qualifications they obtained

OP, perhaps during the course of the academic year, you could explain that it's courtesy to ask in advance. Otherwise, some of your students may not realise

I would also frame this as a GDPR issue (appeals to courtesy don’t work with some people). You can’t provide personal information about your students to anyone who asks, so you need to be told that this reference request is legitimate. Where I work, we have recently had the press trying all sorts of dodgy tactics to get information about a former student, for example.

YABVU
It costs nothing to be kind.

OP, one possible ray of hope on the person chasing despite the out of office. Does you out of office message go out to every email or only the first time someone emails? The default is usually just the first time. The person may have missed the first message and not realised. I've done it before.

They're probably just being rude, but thought we could have some faith in humanity or at least common sense that if you're trying to get someone to do a favour for you, you chase nicely!

My guess is they just needed someone to put down (finding referees can be hard) and didn’t realise this was a bit of an etiquette breach. I would support them if you can - they perhaps need a bit of a leg up with whatever they’re trying to do- but if you can’t, just email the employers back and say so, or pass it to someone else at your institution.

These things can be a pain, particularly when the employer wants them yesterday, but often (and hopefully!) they’re mainly a tick box job.