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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think it's rude to juat assume I'll supply a reference?

138 replies

Workyticket · 03/08/2021 16:54

I'm a teacher in FE. I've been off on leave - returning next week so thought I'd log in and clear the crap put of my inbox today.

There are 5 reference requests from ex (adult) students. Only 1 has asked me first before putting my name forward.

I only teach a gcse re-sit subjects do I'm not the "go to" professional reference person

One company has emailed 3x asking for the reference despite my Out of Office stating I'm off until the 12th

When I go back I'm straight back into new student interviews, assessments and training so will struggle to find spare time.

One of the 5 I definitely won't be doing - the student was work why, demanding and always late!

OP posts:
onelittlefrog · 03/08/2021 19:22

@Workyticket

we've been online for half of this year - I've not really encountered this before - where people juat stick me down without asking/ giving me a heads up

A couple in the past have asked and I've happily said yes, assuming it was a character reference or an academic one - one big employer in our region insists on a previous employer one though so I know that I can't be a referee for those applications. A heads up saves them giving my email to the company, me saying I can't give an employer reference and them having to go back to HR, retract my name and give another.

I get why you're frustrated but it's the sort of thing that young people learn from experience, or from being directly told what to do. They don't just know this stuff.

Maybe when they are face to face in college they have careers advisors/ tutors spell this stuff out for them, but they haven't had that input whilst they've been online? And not everyone has parents who will guide them with this stuff so how are they meant to know?

Chances are they just don't know the etiquette. I think you should give them a break.

AngryWhompingWillow · 03/08/2021 19:22

Last paragraph should read...

"And I shall ask again, what was the point of posting this thread, asking 'Am I Being Unreasonable?' when you are just telling everyone who disagrees with you, that they are 'wrong' and you are NOT being unreasonable?! ...."

GCAcademic · 03/08/2021 19:22

I don’t write references unless I’ve been told by the student that a request is coming my way. How do you know, otherwise, that you have their consent to provide the third party with information about them?

Pastrydame · 03/08/2021 19:23

It is really, really hard to write a reference for someone who wasn't very good. Much easier if they were a great student/employee, the words just flow.

NumberTheory · 03/08/2021 19:23

Given what you say about your students YANBU at all. I wouldn’t put too much thought into it now, though. You have out-of-office switched on so the requesting companies will know not to expect anything until after the 12th (something the students themselves would have been aware of had they asked). When you get back to work write one message to send to all of them saying you are sorry you were away when the requests came in and if the references are still wanted could they please re-request and you will get around to them on [whatever date you are likely to have the time for them]. Send a copy to each student with a note saying it is the done thing to contact someone before using them as a reference and pointing out that issues like this is one of the reasons why as it doesn’t reflect brilliantly well on them.

Hope your students do well on results day!

Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 19:25

You're well over invested in this @AngryWhompingWillow
You can roll-out your "I shall ask again" ahite as much as you want. I couldn't give a flying fuck.

I have 5 students making demands of me - I don't need you doing it too ;)

OP posts:
burnoutbabe · 03/08/2021 19:26

I think all these request should be directed at a central admin person. Not just sent to whichever teacher you fancy (and therefore may well be an unfair distribution of who does then)

I had to have one to apply for a masters. We are told to ask academic advisor (allocated at start of course) . He is on sabbatical for 6 months. Luckily the next Chap I emailed said yes. But I was a bit lost ad to who to ask, what the etiquette was, how much to follow up, it's holidays etc. And I am also a qualified accountant of 25 years. I asked the under grad office and they just said "oh maybe person x".

But really it could all be simpler, like at work, hr do all references, they have the data. I assumed all tutors wrote an end of term report for each g student that anyone could crib.

Hopefully mine is one and done but a few students have had to email around loads before finding someone to agree.

Skysblue · 03/08/2021 19:29

My old employer references just say that Name was employed between X date and Y date in Z role. No waffle or personal stuff. I think that’s pretty standard? Can’t you just reply I confirm that I taught the student between these dates and they obtained X grade in their exam.

Or just apologise and say that you have a policy of not doing references for your students. That does seem VERY weird tho I have never heard of a teacher being that unsupportive before. I thought this kind of thing was part of your job and your students obviously think that too.

Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 19:29

@NumberTheory

Given what you say about your students YANBU at all. I wouldn’t put too much thought into it now, though. You have out-of-office switched on so the requesting companies will know not to expect anything until after the 12th (something the students themselves would have been aware of had they asked). When you get back to work write one message to send to all of them saying you are sorry you were away when the requests came in and if the references are still wanted could they please re-request and you will get around to them on [whatever date you are likely to have the time for them]. Send a copy to each student with a note saying it is the done thing to contact someone before using them as a reference and pointing out that issues like this is one of the reasons why as it doesn’t reflect brilliantly well on them.

Hope your students do well on results day!

thank you - i can't wait for results day.

Most know ish how they've done. A few didn't want scores from the assessments we did as they didn't want to worry over the summer.

ALL those who worried and chose not to get scores have ACED them. One in particular is a fabulous, kind woman with no self confidence. She smashed it and will be a bloody fantastic SEN teacher once she finishes the course she can now enrol on Smile

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 03/08/2021 19:29

Most people would be capable of doing these five references inside of 30 minutes. Shocking to think the OP is a teacher in Further Education (College level,) when she seemingly isn't capable - or isn't arsed - to do five small references for ex pupils

I don’t know what kind of references you write, but my experience of writing them is that they take considerably longer than that. I spend about half an hour on a reference, unless it’s one of those tick box or scoring exercises. For certain purposes, it can take even longer than that.

Planttrees · 03/08/2021 19:34

I regularly give references in the course of my work and never expect to be asked first. I thought it was just part of the job and would always be happy to provide a student with a reference. You don't sound very supportive of your students.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 03/08/2021 19:34

OP, would you consider the possibility that they weren't trying to be rude but just didn't know?

If you were face-to-face teaching, perhaps they would have mentioned it but doing everything online has changed the dynamic a bit.

Perhaps they also feel let down by their educational experience this year.

Perhaps they thought it was part of your role.

I think YANBU to be irritated about it, and within your rights to leave it until convenient to respond. But do at least try to think the best instead of the worst of them.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 03/08/2021 19:40

As a teacher surely it's a measure of success that your students are asking you to be their reference, especially adults who have come back to learn?

This is them trying to get on in life, by getting a job...and you think it's a big inconvenience? Are you sure teaching is for you?

Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 19:43

@fourminutestosavetheworld

OP, would you consider the possibility that they weren't trying to be rude but just didn't know?

If you were face-to-face teaching, perhaps they would have mentioned it but doing everything online has changed the dynamic a bit.

Perhaps they also feel let down by their educational experience this year.

Perhaps they thought it was part of your role.

I think YANBU to be irritated about it, and within your rights to leave it until convenient to respond. But do at least try to think the best instead of the worst of them.

I can see where you're coming from and if they were school leavers then absolutely

But these are adukta applying for professional courses and promotions. Surely they know that it's asking a favour and therefore a quick heads up over Teams (their usual method of communication and something I do reply to when I'm off if it's a quick question that will put their mind at rest

Lots of them are on Access courses too so without the heads up I've no idea whether they've asked those teachers too.

OP posts:
GintyMcGinty · 03/08/2021 19:43

This is part of your job.

YABU

Magpiecomplex · 03/08/2021 19:46

@Workyticket I'm FE too - after several of these unexpected reference requests this summer, I did raise an eyebrow at them. I'm going to make sure I keep reminding my tutor groups this coming year about reference etiquette!

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 03/08/2021 19:46

YABU
It’s part of the job

ThreeWitches · 03/08/2021 19:48

@Workyticket

I'm not at work. I won't be until the 12th. My laptop is at the repair place and they're not easy to do on my phone

These aren't students who've emailed asking me to write a few words - they're employers etc who have sent me reference forms so they're all different

They are adults - youngest is 27.

I've not said I'm not writing them - so I'm not 'mean'

I asked if it was rude for people to put me forward without asking

As I said - I'm not always suitable as some are 'employer specific'

One of the 5 I definitely won't be doing
Original poster
Workyticket · 03/08/2021 19:49

@Thatsjustwhatithink

As a teacher surely it's a measure of success that your students are asking you to be their reference, especially adults who have come back to learn?

This is them trying to get on in life, by getting a job...and you think it's a big inconvenience? Are you sure teaching is for you?

Absolutely. I love my job, I meet people every year that, if I met them outside of work, I'd like to be friends with

They often come to me for advice etc over their Access course leaders.

However surely if they like me enough that they trust me as a referee they can drop me a line "Hi Worky, remember me? I'm going for a band 4 job. Would you be my referee please? If you could mention xyz you oraises me for that would be great as it's a big part of the role I want" would be lovely!

OP posts:
Pastrydame · 03/08/2021 19:49

It's not part of her job while she's on leave

Thatsjustwhatithink · 03/08/2021 19:56

@Workyticket

Yeh and it would be lovely if everyone was perfect. But these are adult learners who have come back into education for GCSE level education. They are already putting themselves out there and you are making it just that but harder for these people to go on and be successful in their lives.

Like nearly all managers I write Appraisals for my staff. It's part of my job and helps them go where they want to in the career. I've had people who have left and put me down as a reference. It's good, I take it as a compliment.

Honest opinion....you sound really jack.

Hercisback · 03/08/2021 19:56

Surely they know that it's asking a favour and therefore a quick heads up over Teams

They probably don't know.

I genuinely didn't know until it was pointed out on my university course.

newnortherner111 · 03/08/2021 19:58

If you decide to provide a reference, for those who did not ask first, make it clear in your response that you were not approached.

It would not have taken five minutes for them to have contacted you, even at the time they applied for the job.

PaperMonster · 03/08/2021 20:05

I hear you @Workyticket. Thankfully I’ve only had one in the recent past who just assumed I would provide a reference. And that was a bloomin huge set of questions to answer! And he was a rare one who drove me up the wall. More recent ones have contacted me by text to double check so I don’t mind that.

AngryWhompingWillow · 03/08/2021 20:05

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Workyticket

Yeh and it would be lovely if everyone was perfect. But these are adult learners who have come back into education for GCSE level education. They are already putting themselves out there and you are making it just that but harder for these people to go on and be successful in their lives.

Like nearly all managers I write Appraisals for my staff. It's part of my job and helps them go where they want to in the career. I've had people who have left and put me down as a reference. It's good, I take it as a compliment.

Honest opinion....you sound really jack.[/quote]
Great post!