To think it's rude to juat assume I'll supply a reference?

[Workyticket]

I'm a teacher in FE. I've been off on leave - returning next week so thought I'd log in and clear the crap put of my inbox today.

There are 5 reference requests from ex (adult) students. Only 1 has asked me first before putting my name forward.

I only teach a gcse re-sit subjects do I'm not the "go to" professional reference person

One company has emailed 3x asking for the reference despite my Out of Office stating I'm off until the 12th

When I go back I'm straight back into new student interviews, assessments and training so will struggle to find spare time.

One of the 5 I definitely won't be doing - the student was work why, demanding and always late!

This is an impressionable age and a bit of care and encouragement can go a long way.

They're ADULT students.

Why are you even checking your emails in your holiday?

You certainly don’t need to DO anything about the emails in your holiday.

As long as you are sure your Out of office is on, then if deadlines are missed that’s not your problem.

If they had bothered to ask you then you would have been able to tell them you would be away during the period.

I honestly don’t know why you are getting so worked up about it

It's reasonable to assume that adults resitting GCSEs may not be aware of the etiquette around references. The only way they will learn is through having it told to them. After all "you don't know what you don't know".

Sounds like the ??? guy could do with a few more social pointers too.

I go over and above when I'm working

I go way over and above when people ask nicely.

I teach 150 students ish a week. One reference request I'd genuinely have to login to the college system on a laptop to check her picture to make sure I was writing about the right person!

I've attended home office meetings with students who had no support, bought bus passes for a student who had nothing, set up meetings with MH support / domestic violence support etc.

I've sat with students while they've received bad news because they had nobody else. I've given students my lunch when they has none. I've helped students fill in benefits forms, forms to get their children assessed for many a learning need.

It's all part of the job ths hidden side

I do itbalk with good will and a love for education. Doesn't mean I can't expect a quick message to say "would you mind if I put your name down..."

@Workyticket

YANBU to feel aggrieved that someone assumes you will do it, without asking you first. That's just common courtesy.

But YABU to say 'I don't wanna do it/I ain't got time/I can't be arsed, as I am too busy. It will take ten minutes. As has been said, I bet you spent more time on here today. And the 'I am not working so can come on mumsnet for as long as I wish' line doesn't wash. You are literally contradicting yourself, and making yourself look a bit daft with your 'I simply don't time TIME to do these references!' waffle.

This puts me in mind (a bit) of my friend who wanted her specialist/consultant, who deals with her chronic illness, (8 weeks ago,) to supply a supporting letter for something. She was told by the person she spoke to on the general enquiries line, to email in to them and they would pass it on to him.

She enquired after 2 weeks as she had heard nothing. The general enquiries person said she needs to wait 'a few more weeks,' as because of covid, he was behind. (Covid is the most convenient excuse for everything these days!)

5 weeks went by, and nothing. So she rang and asked to speak to a supervisor on the 'general enquiries line.' They investigated, and it seems that 2 weeks after she emailed in, he had informed his secretary to tell my friend that he doesn't do this kind of thing, as he simply doesn't have time. 3 weeks after he said this, they finally got round to telling her. AFTER she had pushed them for an answer!

tl;dr ... Just illustrating an example of how someone else thinks they're above doing something simple for someone to help them. That letter would have taken five minutes to type. Nearly 2 months on, and my friend still hasn't got anyone to do it, as the GPs are currently too inundated to do it ... (because of Covid obviously...) Yet, the doctors (AND the specialists/consultants,) are seeing hardly anyone, so fuck knows why they 'haven't got time.' Can't be arsed more like. Like the OP!

Also workyticket you asked AIBU - and many people say YES you are! And you're like 'no I'm not......!'

WTF was the point of posting this, if you're just going to say that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong?

@AngryWhompingWillow

But YABU to say 'I don't wanna do it/I ain't got time/I can't be arsed, as I am too busy. It will take ten minutes. As has been said, I bet you spent more time on here today. And the 'I am not working so can come on mumsnet for as long as I wish' line doesn't wash. You are literally contradicting yourself, and making yourself look a bit daft with your 'I simply don't time TIME to do these references!' waffle

I said when I get back to work I'll be busy. The rest is about my own time.

If I worked in Tesco and there was a queue on my day off would you expect me to man a till juat because I waa in there doing my shopping? I mean - it would be helpful to people 🤷

Unfortunately we are obliged to supply references and if you are young it has to be a teacher normally. It was the bane of exh's life - usually with just a few hours notice and whilst we were on holiday

Every reference I've ever been asked to fill out his all been questions with multiple choice answers and one small box to comment any other information. None have taken more than 2 minutes to complete. I've never had anyone ask me first if I would be their reference, I just see it as one of the tasks of my job

@Workyticket

You are clearly not going to accept anyone telling you that YABU.

So why even bother posting this thread? What was the point?

Assumed everyone would agree with you?

You must be pretty disappointed!

If you're not at work, don't look at your emails. Protect your time, rather than resenting your students.

You don't have to provide references if you don't want to, either. I've refused to give references to certain students in the past. If they don't ask my permission to be put as a reference, I will usually check with them before giving the reference and let them know it's polite to ask first. If I've been on holiday and come back to a missed reference request, tough.

I think YABU because you are blaming your students for a situation where you should have better boundaries around your time and resources.

Doesn't mean I can't expect a quick message to say "would you mind if I put your name down..."

The people you are expecting an email from may not be aware it is something you expect. Make that clear to them, and future students, then you can absolutely feel aggrieved.

Lots of big HR department only supply standard references nowadays. Could you not adopt a similar policy and send out a standard response? Might save time composted to filing our forms. Just email the employers saying due to high number of reference requests you can only provide in this format and a few lines.

Most of time it is just to confirm a gap in employment rather than a description of persons qualities

@SuperSange

In the time it took you to type out your post, you could have got it done.

Agree with this

I logged in to do a quick spam delete. Literally a 2 minute job. I wanted to check bank details for a retirement collection i want to donate to too.

I'm back in on the 12th. Safeguarding meeting at 8.30. It's results day so it'll be manic. Interviewing new students all afternoon blah blah

It’s routine rather than rude. To refuse would be petty and unprofessional.

@EleanorOlephantisjustfine

It’s routine rather than rude. To refuse would be petty and unprofessional.

Who said I was refusing?

Yes, you are being a jobsworth.

Either you write references or you don't. When it comes to the end of the year or whenever the requests start to come in tell your students that you don't write them or you do but would appreciate a heads up that they would like to put you down as a reference. It's highly likely that some of them need to know this.

What exactly do you need to cover? Punctuality, teamwork, how they interact, their approach to study, etc. etc. For each area, have a few sentences then copy and paste for each student. Considering the fact that you barely know some of them, I would literally keep it to a paragraph for each student.

If you feel that strongly about it then tell them that you don't do references. Job done.

@Hercisback

Doesn't mean I can't expect a quick message to say "would you mind if I put your name down..."

The people you are expecting an email from may not be aware it is something you expect. Make that clear to them, and future students, then you can absolutely feel aggrieved.

They're mainly people hoping to re-train as nurses, midwives, teachers, pharmacists... or be promoted at work.

Not everyone who didn't get their GCSE at 16 needs allowances for other things.

I bloody love my students - for the vast majority I will write a glowing reference and cross everything that they get the job / promotion / place on the course

It's part of your job.

If it really bothers you then you should probably just say to the students in your class that you don't provide references when they leave and they need to ask someone else, but it's a bit off to be honest.

They're just kids, just fill in the form for them. It only takes a few minutes.

They're not kids.

@Workyticket

They're not kids.

Well I work with young people and anyone up to 25 I will generally call a kid. On the whole, they've still got a lot of growing up to do and as the adult in this situation I wouldn't be getting offended by the fact that they are behaving like kids/ being a bit rude not asking you in advance. That's just how they are.

If it really bothers you, tell them in advance whilst you are teaching them that you don't give references unless they submit a polite email asking you directly for one.

A lot of young people just don't know the etiquette for these things. It's a bit of a silly thing for you to get offended by tbh.

Not everyone who didn't get their GCSE at 16 needs allowances for other things.

More than aware of this, however you have to accept a fair few of them may not realise asking for a reference is a social expectation. I get why you feel annoyed. I'm a teacher too and get requests like this, some direct from college/employers. I email the student a standard "yes I'll do it, it's polite to ask first so you know for next time".

Reply after 12th as your out of office says.

we've been online for half of this year - I've not really encountered this before - where people juat stick me down without asking/ giving me a heads up

A couple in the past have asked and I've happily said yes, assuming it was a character reference or an academic one - one big employer in our region insists on a previous employer one though so I know that I can't be a referee for those applications. A heads up saves them giving my email to the company, me saying I can't give an employer reference and them having to go back to HR, retract my name and give another.

I work in education and I would find it rude. I would still do it, but I at my own convenience and not in the middle of my summer holidays.

@Astella

In the time it took you to type out your post, you could have got it done.

@SuperSange

I agree with this!

I agree. The OP has posted not one, but SEVENTEEN lengthy, and/or waffly posts on here, so far; defending herself, saying how wonderful and super helpful she is, and how wrong everyone is, who disagrees with her!

Yet she claims 'I just don't have TIME to do references for just FIVE of my ex pupils!'

Most people would be capable of doing these five references inside of 30 minutes. Shocking to think the OP is a teacher in Further Education (College level,) when she seemingly isn't capable - or isn't arsed - to do five small references for ex pupils.

So which is it ??? @Workyticket

You can't be arsed?

Or you are incapable of doing it?

Because it's definitely one of the above.

And I shall ask again, what was the point of posting this thread, asking 'Am I Being Unreasonable?' when you are just telling everyone who disagrees with you, that they are 'wrong' and you and NOT being unreasonable?!