To think it's rude to juat assume I'll supply a reference?

[Workyticket]

I'm a teacher in FE. I've been off on leave - returning next week so thought I'd log in and clear the crap put of my inbox today.

There are 5 reference requests from ex (adult) students. Only 1 has asked me first before putting my name forward.

I only teach a gcse re-sit subjects do I'm not the "go to" professional reference person

One company has emailed 3x asking for the reference despite my Out of Office stating I'm off until the 12th

When I go back I'm straight back into new student interviews, assessments and training so will struggle to find spare time.

One of the 5 I definitely won't be doing - the student was work why, demanding and always late!

Just do it. Help people. That’s what teaching is all about. (I’m a secondary school teacher). You can also email the people who have used you as a referee with a heads up on the proprieties of asking for references. A lot of people just don’t know these things and a lot of people come from deprived backgrounds which don’t supply that sort of information.

I get that it's frustrating but it is part of the job.
I'm a uni academic and currently have 6 requests sitting in my inbox.

They don't take that long but could obviously make a difference.

I find it more annoying when the companies asking for the reference are rude - one I received today pretty much demanded a reference by close of play tomorrow!

@memberofthewedding

Its rude of the students but this is probably how their parents have brought them up to be so entitled. It seems that expressions like "please" "excuse me" and "sorry" are now dirty works, not only with the kids but also with parents who never taught their offspring these simple basic skills.

I can think of one business owning colleague who had to choose between two equally well qualified job applicants but selected one because the other was rude to his secretary!

I would make up a basic standard reference and send that off for all the students who failed to ask permission and save your efforts for those who contacted you first.

Utter nonsense. Most young people I know are very polite. Additionally they have just basically given up a year of their youth to protect the generations above them from a disease that doesn't really affect them, so they are deserving of our respect and thanks actually.

I would find it rude - but I am over polite. 😂

I'm not at work. I won't be until the 12th. My laptop is at the repair place and they're not easy to do on my phone

These aren't students who've emailed asking me to write a few words - they're employers etc who have sent me reference forms so they're all different

They are adults - youngest is 27.

I've not said I'm not writing them - so I'm not 'mean'

I asked if it was rude for people to put me forward without asking

As I said - I'm not always suitable as some are 'employer specific'

@memberofthewedding

Its rude of the students but this is probably how their parents have brought them up to be so entitled. It seems that expressions like "please" "excuse me" and "sorry" are now dirty works, not only with the kids but also with parents who never taught their offspring these simple basic skills.

I can think of one business owning colleague who had to choose between two equally well qualified job applicants but selected one because the other was rude to his secretary!

I would make up a basic standard reference and send that off for all the students who failed to ask permission and save your efforts for those who contacted you first.

eh? They are adults

And they've not spent a year in my class without using please and thank you. Not a chance

You sound like one of life’s terminally offended.

@anonforamo

I get these all the time! The way I see it, it's part of the job. I also use it as a learning opportunity. Typically I email the student if I have their details and tell them how excited I am they are pursuing whatever opportunity this is. I ask them a bit about role/course and then also suggest perhaps reaching our directly to ask if someone would mind being a reference, and tell them that helps me plan what to say and deal with it in a timely manner. This is an impressionable age and a bit of care and encouragement can go a long way.

So that must take what, half an hour of your time? Just how many students do you teach?

@MarcusRashford

You sound like one of life’s terminally offended.

For not wanting to do work during the holidays that I've not been asked politely to do?

@anonforamo

I get these all the time! The way I see it, it's part of the job. I also use it as a learning opportunity. Typically I email the student if I have their details and tell them how excited I am they are pursuing whatever opportunity this is. I ask them a bit about role/course and then also suggest perhaps reaching our directly to ask if someone would mind being a reference, and tell them that helps me plan what to say and deal with it in a timely manner. This is an impressionable age and a bit of care and encouragement can go a long way.

Can I just say you sound absolutely lovely. Lucky students

So that must take what, half an hour of your time?

Do you type with a singular goose feather instead of your fingers?

@anonforamo has pretty much written the email, you just have to reformat it. The longest amount of time it could have taken is the 8 minutes between the OP and this post.

It is rude, but they probably don't mean to be.

I know of a student who provided a lecturer's name as a referee. The lecturer gave the reference and mentioned to the student, very nicely, that if she had passed on staff details, she should let them know. The student submitted a complaint.

If they’re ex students are they able to even contact you? I know when I left uni and lost access to my email account I lost a lot of contact details and jobs have contacted the uni directly and references must have been directed to the correct person. Perhaps they are unsure
How to contact you first? Maybe you should let people you teach know you’re happy to give one but please ask first from now on and take it as a learning curve? Plus if you e applied for a new job and need to give a reference and it’s been 2+ years since leaving FE you’re hardly likely to still be in touch and may feel awkward contacting you directly but have no other references to give

I'm really surprised both by the vote, and by so many of the replies on here.
Of course it is rude.

Maybe it is something worth raising with management at the college, if the students are people who lack the skills to do things in the expected way, for whatever reason or poverty of experience, that some basic adult education could be offered by the college, as an additional course?
I know some people who have done a lot of this sort of work both at FE college and as part of courses for improving English language for those for whom their first language isn't English. It often comes hand in hand with not 'getting' cultural expectations in a different country, however intelligent you are.

Work shy one sent a line of ??? when I've not responded to his - again, despite my Out of Office

Definitely don't do one for this prick. I wonder if he would have done the same to a male teacher.

With the others, I would do it in my own time and message them saying them saying they should have given you a heads up as it's a very busy time for you.

Don't check your emails when you're on holiday. That will solve one part of the problem.

I have this situation often, and I also teach adults who should know better but don't. The way I see it is that if they don't know what's polite and professional then I have to teach them. There's no real point getting annoyed with students who don't behave in a the way they ought to. You'll stress yourself out. Just let them know what the normal procedure for requesting a reference is.

@pippistrelle

It is rude, but they probably don't mean to be.

I know of a student who provided a lecturer's name as a referee. The lecturer gave the reference and mentioned to the student, very nicely, that if she had passed on staff details, she should let them know. The student submitted a complaint.

That complaint shouldn't get house room though and won't go anywhere. I agree it's annoying.

What I've noticed happening more often in recent years is that ex students email requesting a reference - so far all acceptable - but they copy and paste that request to numerous lecturers on the course without saying. So you can end up with half a dozen people writing references when only one is needed, and then that's a load of tutor time wasted.

@Ivy48

If they’re ex students are they able to even contact you? I know when I left uni and lost access to my email account I lost a lot of contact details and jobs have contacted the uni directly and references must have been directed to the correct person. Perhaps they are unsure How to contact you first? Maybe you should let people you teach know you’re happy to give one but please ask first from now on and take it as a learning curve? Plus if you e applied for a new job and need to give a reference and it’s been 2+ years since leaving FE you’re hardly likely to still be in touch and may feel awkward contacting you directly but have no other references to give

Some are current students. My email address hasn't changed. When Covid hit our IT department couldn't keep up with resetting college passwords when students forgot so we added them to teams.using personal email addresses in the first lockdown if needed (always my work email, never my private one)

I have always considered it basic manners to ask before putting someone down as a reference.

However, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some people have never been taught or told that.

I would do it on my return to work and consider it part of my job, but would also email the ex-students now to tell them that it's customary to ask first (otherwise how will they ever know) and to tell them that I'm on holiday until 12th and won't be doing it until after that date.

You’re not unreasonable at all. Of course they should have asked first. I wouldn’t entertain any of the employers who have chased you either. How rude!!!

It is a bit rude not to ask first. But these people may not be aware of the etiquette. I guess you have to do it - they probably have no one else to put down.

I would have some stock references saved on my computer. They only need to be a paragraph. You can cut and paste. Job done.

If it's that important to you, tell your students you will only give references if asked first. Mind you, I can't see what difference it will make. Are you going to say no?

It's all a bit jobs worthy.

They probably don't know they need to ask. Just email them to tell them and put it as a line in your start of course info.

@anonforamo

I get these all the time! The way I see it, it's part of the job. I also use it as a learning opportunity. Typically I email the student if I have their details and tell them how excited I am they are pursuing whatever opportunity this is. I ask them a bit about role/course and then also suggest perhaps reaching our directly to ask if someone would mind being a reference, and tell them that helps me plan what to say and deal with it in a timely manner. This is an impressionable age and a bit of care and encouragement can go a long way.

🖕🏼 This is lovely. A really lovely volunteer put me down as reference recently and I was able to squeeze into her reference how she could cross refer clients, so we’ve a new client stream and we’re still working with her. Win win!

@LauraFlashley

I would have some stock references saved on my computer. They only need to be a paragraph. You can cut and paste. Job done.

If it's that important to you, tell your students you will only give references if asked first. Mind you, I can't see what difference it will make. Are you going to say no?

It's all a bit jobs worthy.

Jobsworthy?

Have you read what I've written?