To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

I think they’re all misogynistic and racist.

@FloofyCushion

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

It isn't misogynistic, it's a name given to entitled racist white American women who harass black people and think they can get away with it. That's how it originated.

Agreed OP.

Yet now it’s used to shut down middle aged white women with an opinion. It’s ageist, to boot!

I hate these lazy stereotypes. They add nothing to any debate. I wonder whether the internet will basically end up a bunch of people shouting ‘Karen!’ ‘Snowflake!’ ‘Woke!’ ‘Gammon!’ ‘Marxist!’ At each other…

Yes, it's how it originated in the US, but it appears to be used now to refer to any middle aged woman who has an opinion. And is therefore misogynistic.
I've no experience of those other names being used to describe women.

its misoggynistic because it derides a woman for stepping out of her approved role (letting people walk all over her)
you can add ageist to that because women called Karen tend to be middle aged
i imagine there are some Black women called Karen, why not?
I have no idea what the other names imply, I've not heard this being done in the UK, so I can't tell if thats simple racism or carries and element of misogyny also.

It might be where it originated, but it's now used to silence women who dare to have an opinion or stand up for themselves. I only have to look at the comments under local news articles to inevitably see "shut up Karen " thrown at a woman.

Isn't it just a case of ignorance. If someone said 'Alright, Shaniqua!' as a retort, it would mean nothing to me because I don't know the significance of it. I know about 'Karen' because people talk about it.

Oh you will get a pile on soon enough but agreed. Never heard this other names referred to as misogynistic only racist. Seems many on MN are far more outraged by the use of the name than the way some white women weaponise their tears and their social advantage to unjustifiably get people (usually non white people) into trouble.

In the UK there are black women called Karen.
In the UK, nobody says “ling ling”, or “Guadalupe”.

in the UK “shaniqua” has never even been heard of.

The name seems to have evolved to be used against any woman now, regardless of age or race, who dares to have an opinion.

I agree OP. I think it's more important to support black, Asian, Hispanic victims in the US who bear the brunt of racism, and if using the term banner gives the impetus to upload their experiences of racist abuse on YouTube, then I fully support them.

I actually know 2 Karen's, and they're both black. I'm not sure about the derogatory use of the other names, that doesn't seem to happen in the U.K.

The term Karen is applied to any woman regardless of ethnicity who speaks out or strands up for herself, and doesn't appear to be based on race imo.

@Taoneusa

in the UK “shaniqua” has never even been heard of.

of course it has.

Yes, you're about to be dived on I think. I 100% agree with you though - it's always interesting to watch the MN outrage over Karen.

Karen started in the US didn't it? I've never personally heard those other names used in a derogatory way but I'm not an ethnic minority in the US. Just because I've never had personal experience of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Absolutely, but I believe we are talking about two different situations.
I would be taking more issue with some people othering black women by denoting them as a different class of women which I'm seeing happen more and more.

I don’t see how the Karen phenomenon really has any impact on those white women weaponising their advantages to get black people in to trouble, though. They’re not going to stop being racist arseholes because of a meme. More likely, this is just making more ordinary women feel uncomfortable on the internet.

It’s become a way to say ‘shut up, old white unattractive woman who dares to say something’. Much like Shaniqua is used to say ‘shut up poor black girl, nobody cares what you think!’

I think they’re both basically just ways of shutting up women. So fuck that.

Interesting point OP. I'd encountered Shaniqua used before but never encountered the others.

@cinammonbuns

Oh you will get a pile on soon enough but agreed. Never heard this other names referred to as misogynistic only racist. Seems many on MN are far more outraged by the use of the name than the way some white women weaponise their tears and their social advantage to unjustifiably get people (usually non white people) into trouble.

This exactly

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women
You and your friends might use those racist terms op but I don't know anyone who does. The fact that some people do doesn't make it OK to be misogynistic/ageist to 45+ women.

@weebarra

Yes, it's how it originated in the US, but it appears to be used now to refer to any middle aged woman who has an opinion. And is therefore misogynistic. I've no experience of those other names being used to describe women.

This

I agree with you op. I made this point on mumsnet before but got shouted down because my non white opinion doesn’t matter as much as the white peoples feelings. It’s almost like mumsnet is full of….

Seems many on MN are far more outraged by the use of the name than the way some white women weaponise their tears and their social advantage to unjustifiably get people (usually non white people) into trouble
Are you seriously saying that women behave in more racist ways than men? What evidence do you have of that?