To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

Funny, I haven't noticed Britain First demos to be more women than men. No reason to think more women than men are racist

I don’t want to shout anyone down. A question was posed, I answered it.

Do white womens issues get highlighted and addressed more loudly than non-white women’s? Yes, of course. We live in a world of white privilege. Only an idiot would deny that.

That’s the issue, I guess. Why are people going mad about Karen and not Shaniqua? How can we change that? Both are horrible terms. I don’t find either funny or clever.

Yes, I'm with you. Two wrongs make a right. Calling someone "Karen" isn't a problem because some Asian women were called "Ling Ling" (I've never head of this but I'll take your word for it). Morally, those two things cancel each other out.

Also, if I punch you in the face then it doesn't matter because some other people who were more oppressed than you were once punched in the face, so it all evens out in the end.

Bravo on your enlightened moral philosophy.

Using any name to attempt to silence a group of women (whatever their ethnic background) is misogyny. In the UK using the 'Karen' - a name that is far more commonplace amongst working class women - is also classist.

black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling

If this is the case, then it's misogyny combined with racism.

Basically, all these names are used to silence women. Instead of allowing ourselves to be divided along ethnic lines we should just be calling it out for it is.

Instead of allowing ourselves to be divided along ethnic lines we should just be calling it out for it is.

Sorry, that should read 'what it is'.

Those names are horrible and misogynistic too (and obviously racist to boot).

No ones name should be used as an insult.

Yes, it is racist, ageist and misogynistic OP, please don't use it!

@Taoneusa

in the UK “shaniqua” has never even been heard of.

Wrong.

I really never heard "Shaniqua" or "Ling Ling" or "Guadalupe" in UK, and certainly not in the same context as "Karen".

Karen is now used for any woman over the age of about 30 who dares to exist basically. You don't need to be white or behaving badly.

@DoolallyLully

I don’t want to shout anyone down. A question was posed, I answered it.

Do white womens issues get highlighted and addressed more loudly than non-white women’s? Yes, of course. We live in a world of white privilege. Only an idiot would deny that.

That’s the issue, I guess. Why are people going mad about Karen and not Shaniqua? How can we change that? Both are horrible terms. I don’t find either funny or clever.

"Karen" as an insult is very widespread. This may be my privilege speaking, but I have never heard of any of the others.

@Celandines

Seems many on MN are far more outraged by the use of the name than the way some white women weaponise their tears and their social advantage to unjustifiably get people (usually non white people) into trouble Are you seriously saying that women behave in more racist ways than men? What evidence do you have of that?

Where in that post did you read that white women are more racist than white men? I think you missed the (very important) point quite spectacularly there.

Are you seriously saying that women behave in more racist ways than men? What evidence do you have of that?

I think this is a good point. The fact that this type of white, racist women have been given a name, has put a lot of focus on them culturally in the discussion about racism. Should we start calling racist men Derek, after Derek Chauvin? Because as awful as these racist women are, I'm not seeing much evidence that the racism that comes from women is worse than the racism that comes from men. There are also a LOT of men who act just like your stereotypical "Karen", but there is no name for those.

It's all part of a wider culture that likes blaming women and letting men off the hook, when in fact they are often generally worse. Good to tackle racism, but not great how it's being done.

Also, in the UK I've only ever seen young, white, middle class men use 'Karen' as an insult. Make of that what you will ...

Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny

It is prejudice against women over 40. So that is ageism and sexism.

I was sorry to see that Adam Peaty used the phrase in a tweet last year. Admittedly it wasn't in a really offensive way, although he said something about not wanting to get covid by going out and getting coughed over by a Karen.

I have never heard black women being reduced to one name. They obviously suffer massive prejudice but that's not what is being discussed when people talk about "Karens". Also some women called Karen are not white.

As I've said before, women are not allowed to have an opinion, and women over 40/45 are definitely not allowed to have an opinion and that's why "Karen" is grossly offensive and there is no equivalent for men.

There are a lot of layers to this. Layers of racism, classism, misogyny and cultural meaning depending on where you’re from. I’ve heard Shaniqua used in the UK, but interestingly, I’ve mostly heard it used by black people against some black women.

I’ve never heard the others, but maybe that’s to do with not being in the USA or being on social media much.

Oh and if anyone used any of those on mumsnet I would be horrified! Probably more so than with ‘Karen’ because that’s in such common parlance in the UK that many (most?) haven’t really thought about it being sexist/ageist/unpleasant to people called Karen, and thus it’s often used unthinkingly by people not intending to be malicious.

How are any of the names OK/not misogyny?

Had I ever heard those names for women if other races I would have considered them racist and sexist, and protested their use.

Have they been commonly used in this country?

Seems many on MN are far more outraged by the use of the name than the way some white women weaponise their tears and their social advantage to unjustifiably get people (usually non white people) into trouble

I am outraged by the fact that every time a woman over 40 expresses an opinion or makes a complaint, she is put down by the use of the word "Karen". I don't believe that women of my age crying to get black people into trouble is a widespread problem. I am sure it happens on occasion, but not very often.

Anything that silences any woman, regardless of race, religion, nationality, class or age is wrong. Its nothing new- they used to shout witch and burn us; nag and humiliate us with a face shackle. I've never heard the other terms you mentioned in the UK but would be equally offended by them if they were used against other women. .

I’ve never heard of all the other names…! Just Karen

I've seen plenty of non-white women being told to "shut up Karen" by white men. So whilst it might have started in the US as a specific name for racist, white women, its now way beyond that.

Personally I've never heard the others used in that context - I think in the UK at least the use of Karen seems more widespread so is generating more attention/awareness.

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

I have never seen the other names used on MN though. Karen is used loads.

(I've never seen the others used at all in the U.K. but obviously that is just my experience.)