To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

The reason Karen is misogynistic and the others are racist is because racism is considered worse than misogyny so that's what people call out in those cases. It's that simple. Women are bottom of the pile whatever way you look at it and whatever race you are.

It's sexist, racist and ageist. The other names are also sexist and racist, but not ageist. Using someone's name as a slur is horrible and childish.

@aSofaNearYou

From the videos of "Karens" I have seen on SM they are not necessarily middle-aged and they are most definitely not men.

That's the point though, you've seen them because "Karen" is a trend that people are interested in? Have you seen an equal number of videos about racist men? Is there a name for those men? Because I'd be prepared to bet the majority of racist crimes are committed by men.

It’s not BAME responsibility to equally document racist abuse by men and women. They should share whatever they experience.

@DoolallyLully

I think they’re all misogynistic and racist.

Agreed. They’re all designed to shut women up and put them in their place. Disgusting.

@Tal45

The reason Karen is misogynistic and the others are racist is because racism is considered worse than misogyny so that's what people call out in those cases. It's that simple. Women are bottom of the pile whatever way you look at it and whatever race you are.

Yes, this too.

@DeleteSystem32

One odd one about white women weaponising tears - American park reference I am assuming - that was widely denounced here, by every poster. No idea what their age or ethnicity as everyone agreed the woman in question was unreasonable.

I seem to remember plenty posters defending her.

Yep lots of posters blamed the man for filming her.

I hope you take the honesty in the spirit it’s meant @cinammonbuns. I care about the experience of BAME colleagues, and my son’s black friend. I check my privilege and my bias. But the reality is their experiences are too far removed from mine for me to put outrage for them into action. I’m not ambivalent, I’m just exhausted with what life is throwing at me on other fronts

It’s not BAME responsibility to equally document racist abuse by men and women. They should share whatever they experience.

I didn't say that, did I. It goes viral, because of the focus on "Karen's".

All these things are used to silence women. Some of them are racist, too. Doesn't mean any of them are acceptable.

@Tal45

The reason Karen is misogynistic and the others are racist is because racism is considered worse than misogyny so that's what people call out in those cases. It's that simple. Women are bottom of the pile whatever way you look at it and whatever race you are.

Statistically black women are always at the bottom of the pile, and always have been. So if we think about misogyny, we need to recognise racism with it because black women are more affected by it than white women are.

Is it actually true that a 'Karen' is only used for white women?

Regardless of how the term originated, I've seen people of all ages/backgrounds/ethnicities being dismissed as 'Karens' online. The only stipulation is that they must be female.

@Spindless no I take the honesty for what it is. Most white women in real life and on here will lie and say they care just as much about BAME women as other white women and dyne discrimination they face. It is clearly not the reality and I am happy to see someone admit it without sugar coating. Thank you.

@aSofaNearYou

It’s not BAME responsibility to equally document racist abuse by men and women. They should share whatever they experience.

I didn't say that, did I. It goes viral, because of the focus on "Karen's".

Again, not the fault of BAME people. BAME women are at the bottom of the pile. I don't think we should silence them.

@Polkadots2021 exatuz @Tal45 unsure why you say women collectively are at the bottom for he like when it seems obvious that being non-white and a women would put you lower than other white woman.

I will pre-emptively reply to your likely response that it’s actually all women at the bottom by asking if differentiate on sex. I.e men vs women why shouldn’t we by rac?

*exactly

*You honestly can’t see why it’s empowering for a black/Hispanic/Asian person to record the person inflicting racist abuse on them and posting it on YouTube and sharing their experience of being targeted by a particular type of person known as a Karen?

Why do you get to decide what helps them?*

Nobody is trying to decide what helps them, but as women we ARE entitled to say their way of addressing it, and making "Karen" the poster girl for everyday racism, is throwing women under the bus. Not them specifically, but the culture.

Like another poster said, it has to do with racism being seen as worse than misogyny. I could honestly come up with a pretty extensive list of examples of times I have witnessed and experienced misogyny specifically from black men, but if I were to come up with a stereotypical name for that and make a bunch of memes I seriously doubt anyone would say that black men don't have the right to say what does and doesn't help me tackle misogyny. They would say I was racist.

[quote cinammonbuns]@znaika no one is using it as a gotcha moment for anything. We are simply pointing out that just because you have not heard of something doesn’t mean it exists. I have heard both Ling Ling and Shaniqua used in the U.K. by British people.[/quote]
Really!? Im Asian and have never heard it. Get loats grief in the US largely for being Russian but also have been called wonton, someother words i wont repeat. The hardcore asian hate comes from the US. The racsim in the uk would.mention people from india and pakistan not hispanics. This how we can tell you have an agenda

[quote cinammonbuns]@CuriousaboutSamphire there has been plenty more than one incident like that though. A new one enters on social media literally every day.

Again the minimising of the amount of incidents whereby white owned lie and gaslight Jon white propel to get them in trouble is interesting.

I can link you several which have happened in just the last month if I thought you would bother to actually watch them.[/quote]
I wasn't trying to minmise anything. Was just pointing out that tempers run high, language intended to inflame is used on most of these kinds of threads.

They always seem to divide - maybe to conquer, I don't know.

But your continued 'strident' posting is a good example of what I mean.

I don't doubt that many women weaponise tears. It is one of those sex based stereotypes we are all brought up with. I do doubt that it is only white women though.

And that's the kind of division I mean.

We can't do anything to tackle the root of that behaviour if we choose to wrangle over additional categorisations and accusations.

@Meraas

You honestly can’t see why it’s empowering for a black/Hispanic/Asian person to record the person inflicting racist abuse on them and posting it on YouTube and sharing their experience of being targeted by a particular type of person known as a Karen?

Except, that isn't the context it's being used in the UK. You do understand that the UK and the US are two entirely separate countries, both geographically and culturally? How about you engage with what I actually wrote instead of waving your little sword at strawmen.

Why do you get to decide what helps them?

Where did I say that I did?

I don't see how the word 'Karen' is better than 'racist' at communicating ideas.

Unless of course you are wedded to the inherent misogyny too.

Regardless of the girls name used I'd be calling it out as misogyny. On social media I'd have more chance of something being done on grounds of race than sexism so if I did see one of the terms in the op I'd report as a racial incident.

@DeleteSystem32

One odd one about white women weaponising tears - American park reference I am assuming - that was widely denounced here, by every poster. No idea what their age or ethnicity as everyone agreed the woman in question was unreasonable.

I seem to remember plenty posters defending her.

Actually I think you are right - but they tended to get their arses handed to them.

The overrriding feeling on those threads was that she was a fucking fruit loop!

I think @Spindless honesty is being used as an unfair gotcha when that isn't what she means.

I genuinely have never heard of the other examples used. That's not because I don't care, but because the area I grew up in was not somewhere they were used. It was a rough, mostly white council estate where racism aimed at those living there was more...overt? Violence, outright racial slurs, graffiti and so on.

We can't be expected to object to what we don't know about. I don't think the other examples are nearly as common in the uk and aren't seen in uk social media much either so it's perfectly feasible for plenty of uk based women to not be aware.

If they're used in the context described they're both racist and misogynistic but having a go at people for not being equally outraged at something they've never heard or seen just comes across as trying to silence women in a different way with a fat dose of whataboutery and accusations of hypocrisy.

@znaika I have an agenda because I have a different way experience to you . I cannot engage in rational debate with someone like you.

Everybody on the planet has an agenda in a conversation.

@aSofaNearYou I dont think the racism of white men (lynchings, shootings etc) has ever been hidden in the US. Personally I have found this lifting of the lid on the racism practiced by white women very eye opening. Just because it is also uncomfortable doesnt mean it shouldn't be labelled or talked about.

@CuriousaboutSamphire ah so additional categories are fine when talking about sex but not when talking about distinguishing by race? What? As if race does not have a big an impact by how you are fired by society. You clearly want to minimise the reality that white women do and have a long history of using their tears to get non white people into legal trouble or to garner sympathy. If you refuse to acknowledge that because you believe it will divide women then you won’t get anywhere. Women are already divided.

Also I can post as much as I want. Who made you the thread police?