Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

How many people considered NI when they voted for Brexit?
Then blame English, Welsh, Scottish and NI brexiters. Not "the English"

My bit of England was much stronger remain than most of wales! Similar level to most of scotland.

How many people considered NI when they voted for Brexit?
In fairness the DUP supported Brexit and voted accordingly shooting themselves in the foot, this enabled the sea border, the DUP and Boris are responsible for the mess.
You can't blame the average English voters for Brexits affect on NI.

Though I will say it is shit the Irish government is being left to deal with the DUP. Let Boris sort his sorry mess out.

"Just don't hold the current generation responsible for historical actions." ... I don't agree with that. We do have responsibilities for what our society has done in the past.

We settled/moved a large protestant population to NI. We've continued to support them in the past, we should continue to support them going forward. You just can't wash your hands of things like that.

... btw... I don't mean the conquest/settlement of large parts of Ireland was a good idea. But it happened, our ancestors did it, and there are consequences for us today.

When it comes to New Zealand, I find it not so amusing how some English, particularly those who have emigrated there, can say in two consecutive breaths that NZ has no history, because it's so recent, and in the next, that Maori grievances against the Crown (which are being addressed by the New Zealand Government, because obviously the British Crown with whom the Treaty was signed would never), is ancient history and people should just get the hell over it, and move on.

It's this kind of contradictory attitude that can perhaps influence people in other countries attitudes towards 'The English/British'.

and what about the 44% of NI that voted Leave? That's quite a substantial proportion - they can't all have been English? Did they not "consider NI" (where they live?).

I'm not just talking about Brexit though. I'm talking about the reaction after the vote was done. The looking down on other nations for daring to raise an issue, the who the fuck do they think they are attitude. Like the looking down on european countries that was done when scientists said let's pause az whilst we investigate the clotting issue. There were articles about the spiteful EU, there were threads on here feeling sorry for the scientists at Oxford because of spiteful European scientists trying to discredit them because of Brexit like no other countries could have scientists capable of spotting an issue. And that they would put their own citizens at risk as fuck you because everything the EU does revolves around you.

There is a prevailing attitude of we are better than everyone else, just look at some of the suggestions on this thread, whole countries have no culture except hating england or the only possible issue other countries could have is jealously. Its not an attractive trait.

'It's this kind of contradictory attitude that can perhaps influence people in other countries attitudes towards 'The English/British'.

Nope, it's the kind of 'contradictory attitude' that you get with people of any nationality or any skin colour. It isn't exclusive to 'The English' 🙄.

and what about the 44% of NI that voted Leave? This is not the thread clearly with the DUP's tongue up Boris's arse while supporting Brexit influenced the protestant vote.
That's quite a substantial proportion - they can't all have been English? Did they not "consider NI" (where they live?).
They generally think they're English more than the actual English, they adore the empire and the Queen with passion.
But no they're British not English.

@JaniieJones

'It's this kind of contradictory attitude that can perhaps influence people in other countries attitudes towards 'The English/British'.

Nope, it's the kind of 'contradictory attitude' that you get with people of any nationality or any skin colour. It isn't exclusive to 'The English' 🙄.

When it comes to colonised countries and people, they kinda take it personal, when dealing with those who represent the colonisers of their country - especially when they are attempting to deal with the fallout of colonisation.

'When it comes to colonised countries and people, they kinda take it personal, when dealing with those who represent the colonisers of their country - especially when they are attempting to deal with the fallout of colonisation.'

Who do, 'The English'? Jesus.

Good Grief. I can't be bothered to try and join the dots any closer for you. I'm guessing wilful ignorance at this point. So useful.

@mbosnz

Good Grief. I can't be bothered to try and join the dots any closer for you. I'm guessing wilful ignorance at this point. So useful.

I don't need patronising thanks or 'dots joining'.

I don't doubt some people need your expertise re colonisation attitudes. It isn't always 'They' or The English' though is it? It is some people. Do you talk about other nationalities or races in such sweeping generalisations. 'The Asians' perhaps?

I'm sure you don't think you need 'dots joining'.

When I'm talking about NZ history, which I was clearly alluding to, it's fairly obvious, if you have any idea about British Empire History, that I was talking about the British. If you have any clue or less of a chip on the post Colonialist shoulder. . . although the only time I said 'they' was alluding to New Zealand/ers, and most particularly Tangata Whenua.

Actually the Welsh and Scots are a different race to the English (aside from the Cornish who are also Celts. So it is racist

@mbosnz

I'm sure you don't think you need 'dots joining'.

When I'm talking about NZ history, which I was clearly alluding to, it's fairly obvious, if you have any idea about British Empire History, that I was talking about the British. If you have any clue or less of a chip on the post Colonialist shoulder. . . although the only time I said 'they' was alluding to New Zealand/ers, and most particularly Tangata Whenua.

Yes, talk about the British colonisation all you like, we all find history interesting.

My point is when you say 'when it comes to colonised countries and people, they kinda take it personal' you are suggesting 'They' ie the English or the British as if they are, again, one homogenous mass. These folk you chat to who 'take it personally' don't represent all the English, you do know that right?

Much as say any negative attitudes I've witnessed from people from NZ I worked with years ago don't represent all those from NZ. It is people not nationalities or races.

I can't believe some people still don't get this.

Oh dear. Never mind old chap.

The folk 'who take it personally', are not the English. They are New Zealanders, who are to this day dealing with the fall out of British Colonisation, most particularly, the Tangata Whenua, otherwise known as Maori, otherwise known as the Indigenous people of New Zealand/Aotearoa.

All I was trying to say, fairly politely, was that a degree of antipathy towards English/British - at times - is rooted in what some people want to deem ancient history in one breath, when it suits their narrative, while dismissing any history prior to colonisation as not being history. . .

I absolutely love that you find history interesting! So do I. . . Especially when it's relevant. And still quite influential. After all, these little issues can have a bearing upon such matters as Trade Agreements, Defence Alliances. . .

@mbosnz, don't take it personally. A lot of English national idiots will post stupid replies. We've a long history, with some great parts and some awful parts. It's fairly easy to remember the best and forget the rest.

Like our football fans, there is a large noisy racist minority, but they are a minority.

.. from a proud English woman!

[quote SeptemberGurl]@mbosnz, don't take it personally. A lot of English national idiots will post stupid replies. We've a long history, with some great parts and some awful parts. It's fairly easy to remember the best and forget the rest.

Like our football fans, there is a large noisy racist minority, but they are a minority.

.. from a proud English woman![/quote]
Korero mai/ or to roughly paraphrase - sing it sister!

'All I was trying to say, fairly politely, was that a degree of antipathy towards English/British - at times - is rooted in what some people want to deem ancient history in one breath, when it suits their narrative, while dismissing any history prior to colonisation as not being history. . .'

I understand your point. My point is any 'antipathy' should be towards people who hold negative attitudes, regardless of race or nationality. You keep trying to group the English/ British together. That's xenophobia.

@whatthejiggeries

Actually the Welsh and Scots are a different race to the English (aside from the Cornish who are also Celts. So it is racist

Well we're pretty watered down now Celtic wise 😂

Actually the Welsh and Scots are a different race to the English (aside from the Cornish who are also Celts.

Highland Scots may be predominantly of Celtic origin, but lowland Scots are much more of a mixed bag. Much like the English.

@whatthejiggeries

Actually the Welsh and Scots are a different race to the English (aside from the Cornish who are also Celts. So it is racist

I find that a bit of a bizarre statement. My DNA shows I am 41% Welsh (so celtic) 51 % England and NW Europe (English) , 5% Norway (Viking) and 5% Germanic Europe (Teutonic) So what race am I ? - I defy anyone in the UK to determine which race they are given the long history of occupation on these island which makes up our joint history and culture. So between the constinuent parts of the UK I do not see racism but rather prejudice and bigotry.

Because at last the English are starting to show some independence. We chose not to be part of a homologous structure in Europe and instead forge ahead shedding ourselves of the bureaucratic encumbrances Europe entails. Sadly not all our nations agreed .The French don't like us cos we saved their sorry asses in two world wars and they've never got over it!

This is the most hilarious thing I've read in a while. I presume the poster was satirising the idiotic Brexiteers but who knows these days? Perhaps they were serious and need a green van urgently.