Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

[SourAppleChew]

Which ones are those?

In the 2011 census, 60% of under 18s in Birmingham were British non-white. Haven't seen this year's census (has it been published yet?) but it was predicted that white British would be an overall minority.

Leicester, Luton, and somewhere else (I forget where) were already

[SourAppleChew]

...and London.

[Dublincailin]

I haven't fully read the thread but as an Irish person with NI connections.

It seems like Westminister consistently shit on Ireland. It has been ongoing for centuries. In the last 100 years we have been had trade bullying up until 1970’s, 1930’s financial sanctions (Westminster loaned Irish farmers the money to buy back the Irish land from English landlords, De Valera refused to pay cue sanctions) threats to invade us (Churchill WW2) Tatcher deliberately fucking our Taoiseach over was in 1980s. One of the latest was Patel threatening to starve the Irish (obviously no research into Ireland by her as we averagely export 20 times more food than we can eat a year)


As for the absolute shit show that was/is partition. Where to start?

It is English people voting for these people who consistently shit on other countries. It is in your name, you for vote them in large numbers to represent you. They work for you and you are obviously happy with the job they do or you wouldn't keep voting them in.

Also it is not one sided plenty of English people hate the Irish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LansdowneRoaddfootballriot

One last thing is the deliberate and blatant disrespect by English Media to not use the correct title for our country Taoiseach, Tánaiste is his second.

I have never heard the English PM be called by anything other than his title in MSM.

[MildredPuppy]

Its interesting as i have been fairly disgusted by several things the uk has done recently that are in my name. Ive been able to vote in several elections so its not like I didnt have the vote that previous generations didnt. I have been very active to try and influence a different result but i feel so powerless and realise that history will say 'the english' or 'the british' did x, y, z and there wont be any note of protests or campaigns against it. The news doesnt even report a lot of these things now. I think the press is very manipulative and i think our political system is set up in a way that whichever party is in, it benefits the elite.

[marmaladehound]

@Dublincailin

I haven't fully read the thread but as an Irish person with NI connections.

It seems like Westminister consistently shit on Ireland. It has been ongoing for centuries. In the last 100 years we have been had trade bullying up until 1970’s, 1930’s financial sanctions (Westminster loaned Irish farmers the money to buy back the Irish land from English landlords, De Valera refused to pay cue sanctions) threats to invade us (Churchill WW2) Tatcher deliberately fucking our Taoiseach over was in 1980s. One of the latest was Patel threatening to starve the Irish (obviously no research into Ireland by her as we averagely export 20 times more food than we can eat a year)


As for the absolute shit show that was/is partition. Where to start?

It is English people voting for these people who consistently shit on other countries. It is in your name, you for vote them in large numbers to represent you. They work for you and you are obviously happy with the job they do or you wouldn't keep voting them in.

Also it is not one sided plenty of English people hate the Irish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LansdowneRoaddfootballriot

One last thing is the deliberate and blatant disrespect by English Media to not use the correct title for our country Taoiseach, Tánaiste is his second.

I have never heard the English PM be called by anything other than his title in MSM.

We are not all voting them in though Our voting system does often not reflect the actual number of votes. It's a first past the post system. It needs to change to proportional representation to be more reflective and balanced of the people's votes.

Like pp media is manipulative, the same is true of its reporting in England, people absolutely do protest about many things but not many people know about it as the media pay little attention to it unless there is violence.

Generalising about people from any part of the world is never going to help any situation. People need to be taken as they come to you, as individuals with their own opinions, feelings etc. Not just as a representative of the country they come from.

[Dublincailin]

I actually don't care where anyone is from.

The question was ‘is anti-English acceptable?

It isn’t but until all history is taught in English school, (good, bad & ugly) then there will be anti-English feeling as there is a high minority of English who think colonies should be grateful to them. What should be grateful for?

I forgot to mention that was quite normal to see ‘No Blacks, No Irish, No dogs in boarding houses windows.

Regardless of what MNers want to think, that a few of that generation is still alive and the mindset is still out there.

I'm saying the anti-English is not all one sided, anti-Irish has been strong in England for many decades.

More recent this is how English represent their country

m.independent.ie/irish-news/footage-emerges-of-man-throwing-a-severed-pigeon-head-at-housing-activists-37345647.html

www.joe.ie/amp/news/man-shouts-abuse-throws-dead-pigeons-head-protesters-dublin-641621

[Baws]

It isn’t acceptable but it is understandable. The assumption that England refers to the whole of the U.K. quite rightly gets people’s backs up. When you overhear English tourists in your hometown being rude and aggressive to shop staff because they shouldn’t have to wear a mask because BoJo is their prime minister and he makes the rules This sort of clueless arrogance doesn’t do the English any favours either. Unfortunately there are a minority of English visitors who visit Wales and Scotland, make derogatory remarks about the countries and its people and mock the languages etc. This behaviour is not going to give a good impression. For the poster who claimed that young people were priced out of the property market in all areas, this is simply not true in other areas of the U.K. where the average income is low.

[Nefelibata33]

I think that some English people think that the whole world revolves around England. They imagine it to be England (and not the UK, or GB) that is somehow still a country that is a force on a global scale. Let's face it, we aren't.

I don't know why it should even matter. As long as you have some friends, and you like where you live, and like your job, that's the main thing. Be happy, not miserable or angry

[Xenia]

Yes, we should retrench from all interference abroad in my view, pull up the drawbridge, look after the UK, stop getting involved in the Middle East etc etc.

We are 6th not first (although when the sun never set on the british empire and Queen Victoria was Empress of India I suppose we owned number 1 and number 5. So 3 of the six have had a huge amount of our influence in the past - some of it for the good such as a fairer legal system than China has.

1. United States
   
2. China
   
3. Japan
   
4. Germany
   
5. India
   
6. United Kingdom
   

www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

[upinaballoon]

@solittletime

Xenophobia is what it is. Plenty of white Europeans subjected to it daily in the Uk. Different from racism I’d say, but similarly steeped in ignorance and fear

Exactly. I don't consider Poles, Latvians and Lithuanians as a different race from the English but I have heard plenty of zenophobic prejudice directed at them.

[Milamoon]

You should try living in wales if you can’t handle a bit of abuse on holiday- like yourself my background is Irish but French Asian so I look white , my sister didn’t by I did ! Spent junior school years in fights for the names they called my sister and now live in a place where they feel comfortable enough to say the most hateful things about the English, my neighbours being a lecturer at a local college stated “ I can’t stand any of them” making reference to anyone who wasn’t welsh! He got a lecture from me and never spoke to him again . The racism in Wales is so covert but it exists in a very big way and if you don’t feel the micro aggression, good for you! My very pretty mixed race niece refuses to visit Monmouthshire says she feels safer in inner London . My observation being that where I live has all the charm of a chocolate box but open the box and the chocolate is maggot filled and rotten to the core . Cough at one end of the street and by the time it gets to the end of the street you have TB , gossiping is one of the lesser appealing traits . No I don’t consider myself English but if your unfortunate enough not to have an welsh accent your a bit stuffed ! I have to say that this has got worse over the past 20 years and isn’t as prevalent in Swansea as it is in the Valleys? I could understand the hostility if history had been different and the Welsh King had tried to keep Wales instead of basically handing the country to the English , hardly considered a conquered nation if your King more or less gifts the place and the Welsh still don’t mind the billions of handouts they get from England? I’m all for them doing for themselves, I’m with the Welsh nationalists- they should expel all the foreigners only have pure bred Welsh people, stop taking subsidies from the English and let them get on with it , I mean it’s nice here but I’ve lived in more beautiful places !

[TomPinch]

@Dublincailin

I haven't fully read the thread but as an Irish person with NI connections.

It seems like Westminister consistently shit on Ireland. It has been ongoing for centuries. In the last 100 years we have been had trade bullying up until 1970’s, 1930’s financial sanctions (Westminster loaned Irish farmers the money to buy back the Irish land from English landlords, De Valera refused to pay cue sanctions) threats to invade us (Churchill WW2) Tatcher deliberately fucking our Taoiseach over was in 1980s. One of the latest was Patel threatening to starve the Irish (obviously no research into Ireland by her as we averagely export 20 times more food than we can eat a year)


As for the absolute shit show that was/is partition. Where to start?

It is English people voting for these people who consistently shit on other countries. It is in your name, you for vote them in large numbers to represent you. They work for you and you are obviously happy with the job they do or you wouldn't keep voting them in.

Also it is not one sided plenty of English people hate the Irish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LansdowneRoaddfootballriot

One last thing is the deliberate and blatant disrespect by English Media to not use the correct title for our country Taoiseach, Tánaiste is his second.

I have never heard the English PM be called by anything other than his title in MSM.

To be fair, you didn't mention all them bombs that some Irish let off in England because some other Irish wanted to remain part of the UK. I'm not sure the English are to blame for that situation.

[CounsellorTroi]

@Milamoon

You should try living in wales if you can’t handle a bit of abuse on holiday- like yourself my background is Irish but French Asian so I look white , my sister didn’t by I did ! Spent junior school years in fights for the names they called my sister and now live in a place where they feel comfortable enough to say the most hateful things about the English, my neighbours being a lecturer at a local college stated “ I can’t stand any of them” making reference to anyone who wasn’t welsh! He got a lecture from me and never spoke to him again . The racism in Wales is so covert but it exists in a very big way and if you don’t feel the micro aggression, good for you! My very pretty mixed race niece refuses to visit Monmouthshire says she feels safer in inner London . My observation being that where I live has all the charm of a chocolate box but open the box and the chocolate is maggot filled and rotten to the core . Cough at one end of the street and by the time it gets to the end of the street you have TB , gossiping is one of the lesser appealing traits . No I don’t consider myself English but if your unfortunate enough not to have an welsh accent your a bit stuffed ! I have to say that this has got worse over the past 20 years and isn’t as prevalent in Swansea as it is in the Valleys? I could understand the hostility if history had been different and the Welsh King had tried to keep Wales instead of basically handing the country to the English , hardly considered a conquered nation if your King more or less gifts the place and the Welsh still don’t mind the billions of handouts they get from England? I’m all for them doing for themselves, I’m with the Welsh nationalists- they should expel all the foreigners only have pure bred Welsh people, stop taking subsidies from the English and let them get on with it , I mean it’s nice here but I’ve lived in more beautiful places !

My DH is English but has lived in Wales for 45 years and has never experienced any racism. In fact he often says he only realised how much casual racism the Welsh suffered when he came to live n Wales.

And if you think Plaid Cymru’s policy is to expel all non Welsh people you need to educate yourself.

[JMSA]

@VladmirsPoutine

Ummm didn't think so. English isn't a race last time I checked. And if a white Welshman is shouting abuse at a white Englishman that doesn't constitute as racism, so I'm afraid not.

Oh, come on. You surely knew what the OP meant.

[Lndnmummy]

🙄Can't get worked up about this tbh. Can't say anything these days without offending someone🙄.

[Lndnmummy]

@BabyBearRus

Yes, as I said the term race is problematic, but it would definitely be defined as prejudice. And, shouldn't this be equally as unacceptable as displaying a racist attitude?

Gosh, people are so sensitive these days.

[Xenia]

I think the equality Act 2010 deliberately does not hav a full defintion of "race" as its definition simply says it includes the following (but could include more)
"Race includes—

(a)colour;

(b)nationality;

(c)ethnic or national origins."

Therefore Welsh discriminating against the English is race discrimination.

[Lndnmummy]

@Mzombie

@solittletime

Xenophobia is what it is. Plenty of white Europeans subjected to it daily in the Uk. Different from racism I’d say, but similarly steeped in ignorance and fear

It's the same as racism, just not about your skin colour. Funny how the exact same people engage in both. The fact that some of their victims have the same skin colour as them doesn't make it any less of a hate crime.

'hate crime'

LMFAO

[fliptopbin]

Generally I see the English part of my heritage as shameful, and have long accepted that keeping a low profile, keeping to myself and accepting that I likely to be disliked for good reason is the best course of action.

[TroysMammy]

Zombie thread - 2021

[CoffeeCantata]

I realise this is a zombie thread, but it's a topic that I have strong feelings about so will add my two penn'orth anyhow!

Firstly, surely 'racism' has to refer to discrimination on the basis of race - not just nationality. Otherwise it's nationalism - but happy to be corrected. Not any prettier though.

I would never visit Wales, Scotland or Ireland nowadays due to having heard so much venom directed against English people over the last few years. It's a shame - because I grew up going to Wales a lot. I love Irish culture and would love to go there (have several Irish friends and love their attitude to life, their humour and wit and warmth) but am frankly too scared of the hostility I might encounter. I have a 'posh' English voice, so I think I'd attract attention.

I think it's down to the rise of nationalist politics, particularly in Scotland, that a rabid anti-English hatred has grown up. I heard someone say that Mel Gibson and his innaccurate film 'Braveheart' has a lot to do with it - many young Scots just swallowed it whole and uncritically.

I feel very depressed about this situation - I'm not talking about a bit of ribbing at football and rugby matches - my Welsh friends always love to have a go during tournaments - but the really obnoxious hatred which seems founded on pretty much nothing that you find amongst the young in the Celtic nations, or the uneducated, it has to be said!

I hate things which divide people - haven't we grown out of this rubbish? And I'm not talking about politics - whether the nations get independence is another issue - but why the hatred??

[KatherineJaneway]

@Milamoon Why did you resurrect a thread from 2021?

Zombie

[Bagsundermyeyestoday]

@fairynick

Racist towards English people 😂😂😂 fucking hell, not really comparable to ACTUAL racism where people of colour you know .. die because of the colour of their skin???

This. Seriously OP 😳🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[missmollygreen]

@sst1234

@VladmirsPoutine

Ummm didn't think so. English isn't a race last time I checked. And if a white Welshman is shouting abuse at a white Englishman that doesn't constitute as racism, so I'm afraid not.

So just Xenophobia then? That’s acceptable? What a poor attempt at playing it down.

Yep, apparently its fine to hate some people just because of where they come from, but not everyone

[RoobarbandCustud]

We don't go to Wales any longer because of this casual anti English stuff, heard it once too often, there's other lovely places.