Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

@igelkott2021

A lot of Welsh communities are sick of rich people from England buying up all the houses for their second homes, making their local areas totally unaffordable

That is happening everywhere: Cornwall, Devon, Lakes, Norfolk.

Salcombe is the latest place to try to stop second home ownership and it is categorically not in Wales.

There’s an extra dimension in Wales though, the Welsh language. My roots are in rural west Wales and as a Welsh speaker it saddens me how much less Welsh is spoken there now than there was when I was a child.

@FloconDeNeige

This thread is a dog-whistle to the xenophobes, as we can see.

If you hate anyone because of where they were born, you’re a fucking disgrace.

Great post.

It’s perfectly acceptable for other countries to mock us... we conquered half the fucking world and still haven’t given sovereignty back to anyone who didn’t force us

That was Britain, not England. Uncomfortable as it may be, the other UK counties are complicit.

Add to that, many, possibly most, foreigners make no distinction between English, Welsh or Scottish. They are all English. England is Britain to them.

Let's not compare this to actual racism. Please.

Firstly, it's xenophobia not racism.

If you hate anyone because of where they were born, you’re a fucking disgrace
This. It makes you a nasty little bigot.

It is racism though, as legally defined.

Going down the route of saying that some kinds of racism is okay, is never going to end well

How is it racism, MrsHunt? What id your legal definition?

@Rno3gfr

“She spends half the year at her property”

It’s go nothing to do with them being English and everything to do with that ^^

A lot of Welsh communities are sick of rich people from England buying up all the houses for their second homes, making their local areas totally unaffordable.

Then I suggest you get the planning in your councils to address this problem

If you want affordable homes in North Wales. Then the Welsh government needs to compulsory purchase farming land then hand it over to say watkin jones, anwyl construction etc. And build.

A farmer in Conwy got planning for three plots on part of one field it was auctioned off and went for 280k per plot.

We need the old WDA back to buy land at farm prices then grant planning.

I'm not blaming the farmer for making nearly a million if that's the way the system is set up

Judging by the replies on here, it's a good job the vast majority of immigration to the UK heads to England and the south east in particular. All this "wales for welsh people" sounds a bit brexity

@Meraas

How is it racism, MrsHunt? What id your legal definition?

I would guess the defintion of 'race' in the Equality Act 2010 's9(1)Race includes—(a)colour; (b)nationality; (c)ethnic or national origins.'

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9

While I agree that fighting against the tyranny of modern slavery should very much be a focus, as I understand it, there is increasingly less protection for the victims, if and when found, in the UK, which of course, plays right into the slavers' hands? Re immigration policy?

Fuck... other English people are embarrassing

Some of the comments here... stop fantasising about being oppressed and spend some time learning about the broken backs your privileged existence was built on.

Top tip... you can have experienced suffering in your life and still be privileged

I don’t hate anyone for where they were born, it’s the butchers flag waving idiots and those trying to centre their privileged white arses every time that get my ire... if you’re going to wave that disgraceful flag and pretend you don’t understand that it’s recognised round the world as a symbol of oppression and terror then i have nothing to say to you

Wherever you go you’ll experience bigots & xenophobes, & tolerance & compassion in equal measure. How people manifest themselves says so much more about them as a person than it does about their nationality. You get nice people & nasty people all over the place - and whether they consider themselves English or Welsh makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. What you experience is their character. Everyone has a choice about how they behave; some people are just unpleasant & if they weren’t being xenophobic it would be something else. Whereas others are accepting & as intelligent & kind.

You can’t change it. Ignore the bad eggs & see them for what they are.

I think sometimes the way history is taught in Britain is through an English lens, not a British one. It covers the harm that has been done to other nations, not just overseas but also within the UK. There is a real lack of understanding of England's past and the scars left.

An English man once made a 'joke' to my Irish friend about the Famine. The Famine was like the Irish Holocaust. When she pointed this out he got all offended and somehow became the victim - classic woke bro, you know the type. The point is there is a deep, deep resentment historically towards the English and English people often are unaware of this, in the same way that some Americans automatically see themselves as 'the good guys' and avoid any self-reflection. They are unwilling to examine their own past or current actions through any lens but their own position as 'good guy'.

Obviously individuals now are not responsible for past atrocities but the scars of those atrocities run deep and have been passed down through generations, often subconsciously. It is prejudice and like any prejudice it's useful to look at where it comes from to challenge it.

@OuiOuiKitty

For goodness sake, how can you blame an entire people for the sins of the past? Frankly, hatred perpetuates hatred and fear. Have we learnt nothing from history?

Mmm part of the problem for me is that it isn't just sins of the past is it? How many people considered NI when they voted for Brexit? How much scorn was poured on ROI for standing up and saying hold up there is an international peace treaty between two countries to be considered here? We were branded as being difficult and being top big for our boots for giving more of a shit about NI than the UK ever did in the Brexit talks. I know this wasn't all English people but you can bet the majority of it was. This is just one thing I can mention, it is late so won't go into more.

I'm not saying 'racism' or xenophobia is acceptable but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that all that has happened was centuries ago and should be 'left in the past' either. NI isn't in the past, the effects of Brexit will be felt in NI for a long time to come.

Agreed

@stayathomer

Theres a lot of extreme delusionalism and one sidedness on this thread. Almost head in the sand. The english fans booed when the other team got the ball throughout the euros this year, and during the national anthems. The Italians made jokes, waved and smiled at the opposition throughout. It's not okay people cheered, but the average person wouldn't act quite as shocked as others are. As for people talking about history, in particular Germany, other countries only see that there is so much pride around countries being taken over, whereas Germany has always shown to want to repent. I know this is over simplifying things and nobody deserves to have people talk like that about them.

Agreed

@HerrenaHarridan

Fuck... other English people are embarrassing

Some of the comments here... stop fantasising about being oppressed and spend some time learning about the broken backs your privileged existence was built on.

Top tip... you can have experienced suffering in your life and still be privileged

I don’t hate anyone for where they were born, it’s the butchers flag waving idiots and those trying to centre their privileged white arses every time that get my ire... if you’re going to wave that disgraceful flag and pretend you don’t understand that it’s recognised round the world as a symbol of oppression and terror then i have nothing to say to you

No, this is incorrect. If you challenge anything to do with English culture or history, if you say anything (self) critical about England as a nation at all, you're a nasty racist.

Just in the way the English were when they subjugated half the world through violence. Oh hang on, that's different...

Some people on this thread don't know they're born.

Just in the way the English were when they subjugated half the world through violence.

The English didn’t. The British did.

Or don’t you understand the difference?

'No, this is incorrect. If you challenge anything to do with English culture or history, if you say anything (self) critical about England as a nation at all, you're a nasty racist.'

Err no, this is incorrect. Challenge all you like, the culture the history etc. Just don't hold the current generation responsible for historical actions.

The problem is when people on here say 'I don't like the English because.. ' or 'white people are...'.

You just cant judge people on their skin colour or nationality you see. Unless you're a bigot, racist or xenophobe?

Judge the actions in history until the cows come home but people must have some awareness and stop saying 'The English' as if we're one homogenous mass. Would they say 'the Asians'?!

How can you blame an entire people for the sins of the past?

Simon Wiesenthal - a man in a position to know - rejected the concept of collective guilt, not least because it played a major part in how atrocities came to happen in the first place

Its seems some cherry pick history but sadly learn little from it; however for anyone who wishes to I recommend some of his writings (The Sunflower is especially good and very readable)

There’s an extra dimension in Wales though, the Welsh language. My roots are in rural west Wales and as a Welsh speaker it saddens me how much less Welsh is spoken there now than there was when I was a child

I thought the use of the Welsh language had increased a lot in recent years.

If you challenge anything to do with English culture or history, if you say anything (self) critical about England as a nation at all, you're a nasty racist

It's fine to criticise events that happened in the past. It is not ok to say that people living now are responsible for what their ancestors may or may not have done, and it is is not ok to blame an entire country's residents for the activities of a few (like the English football fans).

*There’s an extra dimension in Wales though, the Welsh language. My roots are in rural west Wales and as a Welsh speaker it saddens me how much less Welsh is spoken there now than there was when I was a child

I thought the use of the Welsh language had increased a lot in recent years.*

Overall it has and it has a much higher profile. The areas I'm talking about were heartlands of the Welsh language 40 or 50 years ago where most people spoke Welsh.

@OuiOuiKitty

For goodness sake, how can you blame an entire people for the sins of the past? Frankly, hatred perpetuates hatred and fear. Have we learnt nothing from history?

Mmm part of the problem for me is that it isn't just sins of the past is it? How many people considered NI when they voted for Brexit? How much scorn was poured on ROI for standing up and saying hold up there is an international peace treaty between two countries to be considered here? We were branded as being difficult and being top big for our boots for giving more of a shit about NI than the UK ever did in the Brexit talks. I know this wasn't all English people but you can bet the majority of it was. This is just one thing I can mention, it is late so won't go into more.

I'm not saying 'racism' or xenophobia is acceptable but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that all that has happened was centuries ago and should be 'left in the past' either. NI isn't in the past, the effects of Brexit will be felt in NI for a long time to come.

and what about the 44% of NI that voted Leave? That's quite a substantial proportion - they can't all have been English? Did they not "consider NI" (where they live?).

@JaniieJones

'No, this is incorrect. If you challenge anything to do with English culture or history, if you say anything (self) critical about England as a nation at all, you're a nasty racist.'

Err no, this is incorrect. Challenge all you like, the culture the history etc. Just don't hold the current generation responsible for historical actions.

The problem is when people on here say 'I don't like the English because.. ' or 'white people are...'.

You just cant judge people on their skin colour or nationality you see. Unless you're a bigot, racist or xenophobe?

Judge the actions in history until the cows come home but people must have some awareness and stop saying 'The English' as if we're one homogenous mass. Would they say 'the Asians'?!

Exactly this!