Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

@DdraigGoch

Yes I have spent time people watching and I do know what you mean with regard to the men who appear to be totally unenthused and under duress. I just find some of the terminology used to describe that on this thread entertaining. "Wilting spinach", in particular.

I didn't even know there were women's hairdressers, I thought they were all unisex?

My DH calls it the “bored boyfriend” sofa. If we go out shopping together (rare) and I want to try something on he will slouch out and check his phone and wait for me to finish. Hates shopping. He definitely wouldn’t come in a knicker shop. But the fact some men are on the bored boyfriend sofa doesn’t mean they are eyeing up teenagers. They are just waiting for the experience to end.

I agree though. Move the bored boyfriend couch from right outside the changing room. Bored slouchers don’t need to be there. They just want to sit down.

This thread is gold for some newspaper

Years ago I was with dh in a department store shopping for a hat. Millinery was next to the lingerie. While trying on hats DH noticed a man among the lingerie who was not bored but seemed to be getting his thrills by feeling the knickers on the stands

[quote feelingmehtoday]@DdraigGoch

Yes I have spent time people watching and I do know what you mean with regard to the men who appear to be totally unenthused and under duress. I just find some of the terminology used to describe that on this thread entertaining. "Wilting spinach", in particular. [/quote]
Well I'd consider it a perfect metaphor for a man who clearly doesn't want to be somewhere but lacks the guts to say "No, I don't want to waste my Saturday acting as a human valet stand. You have a good time, I'll watch TV." or even "I'm off to look for some new shorts, we'll meet by the fountain in a
n hour".

@Pegasus12

My DH calls it the “bored boyfriend” sofa. If we go out shopping together (rare) and I want to try something on he will slouch out and check his phone and wait for me to finish. Hates shopping. He definitely wouldn’t come in a knicker shop. But the fact some men are on the bored boyfriend sofa doesn’t mean they are eyeing up teenagers. They are just waiting for the experience to end.

OP didn't suggest that they all were watching teenagers. She said that one out of the three was taking an interest in his surroundings.

Well, really good lingerie shops are basically toy stores for men, so it isn't surprising to find them in there. Breathe deep, and go about your own business.

I can understand your daughter being uncomfortable. Because I think she was just embarrassed. But I think you are being unreasonable on this.

It's like saying men shouldn't be cashiers in drug stores and supermarkets because women and girls buy tampons and pads there and they'll need to scan them through. Sure, it might be embarrassing at a young age. But there's no ill intentions because of it.

And as a PP said, a lot of men are asked to sit outside fitting rooms in general so they can be asked their opinions of the clothing. For this why would the men be expected to go wait in the mall. Perhaps some may even be paying for the purchases so it's a bit unreasonable to ask them to leave

If they don’t need to be there (such as examples of being there for a teenage daughter) agree it’s not ideal to have loads of men that don’t need to be there hanging about & taking up seats. A Bravissimo fitting is plenty of time to get a coffee.

(Most) women wear bras. Men know this. Couples and mixed sex groups sometimes shop together. That’s normal.

It’s important that we try and remove embarrassment from every day activities, which are part of female life. Buying tampons is another example.

@StarlightLady

(Most) women wear bras. Men know this. Couples and mixed sex groups sometimes shop together. That’s normal.

It’s important that we try and remove embarrassment from every day activities, which are part of female life. Buying tampons is another example.

We should not have to 'remove embarrassment' because men. We should be able to shop privately if we so choose.

If we want privacy we have to set up single sex shops.

Bravissimo is not a single sex shop so.nobody can complain if a man goes in there.

StarlightLady what a load of nonsense. Women's right to privacy isn't trumped by men's right to hang out by the curtain only changing room in a shop which only sells women's underwear and nothing else.

We don't have to walk around with our breasts or genitals out because most women have them, men don't have to walk around with theirs out because they're normal so we should all be fine with looking at stranger's genitals and remove embarrassment from body parts everyone has.

Childbirth shouldn't be embarrassing so lets talk about the intimate details as part of small talk and shame women if they aren't cool with random non medical people dropping by to watch them deliver.

Everyone goes to the toilet - we shouldn't be embarrassed - lets remove the silly taboo, why have doors on cubicles, or indeed cubicles at all - lets make all toilets mixed sex and open plan to remove embarrassment from daily activities

It isn't the job of teenaged girls, nor women, to give up privacy and have bra fittings within earshot of random men to normalise bras for men Its complete nonsense to pretend that feeling uncomfortable having your bra fitting seperated by a curtain from random men has anything to do with believing men would not otherwise know that women wear bras.

How do you know they were men. They could identify as women. 😁

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme bravissimo sells clothes as well as underwear.

If they were a b cup and in a dress then I think the OP would have mentioned it.

@StarlightLady

(Most) women wear bras. Men know this. Couples and mixed sex groups sometimes shop together. That’s normal.

It’s important that we try and remove embarrassment from every day activities, which are part of female life. Buying tampons is another example.

Agree

We don't have to walk around with our breasts or genitals out because most women have them, men don't have to walk around with theirs out because they're normal so we should all be fine with looking at stranger's genitals and remove embarrassment from body parts everyone has.

I'm struggling to find the comment on this thread that suggests we should all be stark naked in public? Lots of odd (deliberate) misinterpretation / extrapolation going on from posters' comments, me thinks...

How many of you have actually been to a Bravissimo store?

I go to the Oxford Circus one in London a lot. You are lead into an area behind the so annoying sofa with proper doors with locks. You have to go around a counter, no way anyone can just walk in there.

The walls between the changing rooms are thick enough to not hear what is going on in the next one apart from a door opening and closing and while you can hear voices I never heard details about the customer's size or preference in bras. I doubt any person outside at the sofa is hearing a single thing.

When I had fittings the fitter asked me every time to lock the door when she went out to get bras for me to try on, they then knock and annouce themselves so I can open the door again.

That's a lot more privacy than DD had when I took her bra/crop top shopping the first time and I was asked to use a cubicle in the children's section with just a flimsy curtain in full view of the aisle. Reason - she just tried a children crop top, not a bra from the lingerie section.

@reluctantbrit

I did think most stores had actual proper doors, not just curtains. Thanks for clarifying that.

@reluctantbrit

It also sounds like the staff are very discreet and respectful from your description.

reluctantbrit I'm going on the description in the OP! She describes the specific store, with just curtains and the sofa really close by. At least one poster said that they recognise that branch, while others say their local branches have sofas in different locations or different layouts. I haven't personally been to bravissimo in well over a decade because I no longer live in the UK, but the OP is talking about a specific branch and describes it, so being familiar with the set up in another branch isn't particularly useful.

feelingmehtoday that was in response to the declaration that its important that we remove embarrassment from everyday activities. Apparently buying tampins in the supermarket is the same as having bra fittings in a specialist shop (of course it isn't remotely as nobody has tampon fittings in a women's hygiene products shop...) which you take no issue with?