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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Men in lingerie shops

805 replies

Woolywolf · 25/07/2021 10:38

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

OP posts:

Sadiecow · 26/07/2021 19:38

@MummyMayo1988

I'm 32F and HATE this sort of thing. Bravissimo is specifically and female underwear shop. There is no reason for men to be waiting in the changing room. I've got rather large boobs and will never forget a bloke (40's maybe) ogling the size written on the hanger then looking me up and down. God only knows what he was imagining 😬 If I was taking my teenage daughter (never going to actually happen - I have 3 boys) I would ask staff if these men HAD to be in here?! Shops wouldn't let men in a female changing room to wait. Why is it allowed in a bra shop?

They were not in the changing room, they were outside!

penguinwithasuitcase · 26/07/2021 19:39

I asked my DP about this and he said he thinks of it the same way as walking behind a woman on the street at night.

He'll cross over –not because they don't both have equal right to be there, but because he has an opportunity to respect her space and give her one less thing to think about in an already self-safeguarding-packed day.

Similarly, he has every right to wait outside the changing rooms in a lingerie shop –and sometimes he will, if it's quiet. But in this case, he'd go and do a lap of the shop until I was ready.

Mockolate · 26/07/2021 19:39

Bravissimo is specifically and female underwear shop. There is no reason for men to be waiting in the changing room.

The OP said OUTSIDE the changing room.
Outside.
Not inside.

Mockolate · 26/07/2021 19:40

Cross posted with sadiecow
I think people are just making up their own scenarios as they go along now lol

coogee · 26/07/2021 19:42

Bravissimo is specifically and female underwear shop. There is no reason for men to be waiting in the changing room.

They don’t, but several perfectly valid reasons have been given for them to be waiting in the waiting area specifically provided for people of any gender to wait in.

Scubadivinginabox · 26/07/2021 19:45

YANBU. With a teenage daughter, I would have felt exactly the same. Actually, even without a daughter in tow. Why do men have to be everywhere? Would happily not have them be allowed in lingerie shops, womens' hairdressers and have safe 'women only' spaces, in the same way I have no desire to go to my local barbers or men's underwear shop (if there is such a thing. If so, why not?).
Can you also tell I loathe unisex toilets?
There are just some spaces that should be women only. I agree with you that this should be one of them.

Sadiecow · 26/07/2021 19:49

@Scubadivinginabox

YANBU. With a teenage daughter, I would have felt exactly the same. Actually, even without a daughter in tow. Why do men have to be everywhere? Would happily not have them be allowed in lingerie shops, womens' hairdressers and have safe 'women only' spaces, in the same way I have no desire to go to my local barbers or men's underwear shop (if there is such a thing. If so, why not?). Can you also tell I loathe unisex toilets? There are just some spaces that should be women only. I agree with you that this should be one of them.

You loathe men also, I think?

patkinney · 26/07/2021 19:52

I might be wrong here, but in the past didn't some places (I don't know this specific shop) have magazines for men stuck in this purgatory shopping with their DW/DP to look at: 'GQ', 'Top Gear' that sort of thing.... but due to covid-19, that has had to be stopped? Yet another small, but in this case significant effect, of the current situation.

feelingmehtoday · 26/07/2021 19:55

Similarly, he has every right to wait outside the changing rooms in a lingerie shop –and sometimes he will, if it's quiet. But in this case, he'd go and do a lap of the shop until I was ready.

I don't think some posters would be any happier with your DH doing a lap of the shop, tbh. They'd assume he was perving at all the knickers over their shoulders...

ERFFER · 26/07/2021 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DdraigGoch · 26/07/2021 20:04

[quote feelingmehtoday]@Mockolate

We are adding "wilting spinach" to the list now. On top of "dopey", "gormless" and "being dragged". It's the thread that keeps on giving. [/quote]
Have you ever spent time people-watching in a shopping centre? You can easily spot the men who are not there of their own volition and who are only there to carry the bags.

Gwenhwyfar · 26/07/2021 20:06

@Scubadivinginabox

YANBU. With a teenage daughter, I would have felt exactly the same. Actually, even without a daughter in tow. Why do men have to be everywhere? Would happily not have them be allowed in lingerie shops, womens' hairdressers and have safe 'women only' spaces, in the same way I have no desire to go to my local barbers or men's underwear shop (if there is such a thing. If so, why not?). Can you also tell I loathe unisex toilets? There are just some spaces that should be women only. I agree with you that this should be one of them.

Why can't/shouldn't men go into women's hairdresser's? I don't see why you'd want that. It's nothing like toilets or changing rooms or even lingerie shops.

LivingDeadGirlUK · 26/07/2021 20:06

I think it would be nice for shops to put the seating area a bit further away from the waiting room so it doesn't make people queuing uncomfortable. My partner once waited for an hour for me to try on bras in John Lewis, with our 12 month old. They were my first non nursing bras after having our son and it was my birthday present.

Gwenhwyfar · 26/07/2021 20:09

"I don't think some posters would be any happier with your DH doing a lap of the shop, tbh. They'd assume he was perving at all the knickers over their shoulders..."

There was a funny episode of Roseanne where Dan went to the underwear shop and the assistants were guessing 'husband or pervert'.

LipstickLou · 26/07/2021 20:25

I never buy bras if there are men around. I have a j cup and I am not asking for my size around men. Ditto daugter f cup. Wont try on after being ogled in Marks.

maybloss2 · 26/07/2021 20:26

Just like to say that as a teen I hated anyone being around when I went to buy bras. I got boobs at primary school, they popped out overnight😬and was the object of unwanted male attention from then on. I also got bitching from other girls. I didn’t like having big boobs and hated changing rooms of any kind, even when they were all female and no men in sight. I’m more relaxed for myself now. But I do feel for youngsters who maybe struggling with body image issues.

feelingmehtoday · 26/07/2021 20:30

@Gwenhwyfar

"I don't think some posters would be any happier with your DH doing a lap of the shop, tbh. They'd assume he was perving at all the knickers over their shoulders..."

There was a funny episode of Roseanne where Dan went to the underwear shop and the assistants were guessing 'husband or pervert'.

kowari · 26/07/2021 20:33

Why can't/shouldn't men go into women's hairdresser's? I don't see why you'd want that. It's nothing like toilets or changing rooms or even lingerie shops.
Yes, I don't see how that is the same at all. What is a women's hairdresser and how does it differ from a unisex hairdresser? I go to the barber as a female because I want a standard barber cut, walk in, no hair wash, chat or fuss, and for £13. Likewise, men with longer hair might want a hairdresser, not a barber.

Gendercritic · 26/07/2021 20:52

If it's like my Bravissimo branch the sofa is really close to the changing rooms and you can see into part of the communal area of the changing rooms from at least one seat. I dont see why the OP should be called prudish or slagged off for 'being embarrassed' when she clearly wasn't - she just wanted some privacy and dignity for her and her daughter. That's what single sex changing rooms are for. Even if they can't see into the cubicles men have a bad enough history for any woman to want them well out of the way in a lingerie shop. None of us can be completely confident about their reasons for being there. Yes, I know most men are fine but these facilities are to protect us from the minority who arent and they dont come with labels to indicate which is the sleaze ball. I think it shows a lot of insensitivity for men to be in that area but doesn't surprise me. The shops should take some responsibility and move the sofas further away.

DdraigGoch · 26/07/2021 20:53

@pleasedonttextmyman

DdraigGoch

we get it, you don't agree with me.
no need to twist things up and make them up entirely, or your argument is pretty thin if thats' the only thing you can come up with.

The OP has had a straightforward concern. Her daughter is made uncomfortable by the presence of men immediately outside a bra fitting room. You have repeatedly twisted what the OP and others have said to imply that they are calling for some kind of total segregation at all times when all that is being asked is that men respect the privacy of those undergoing an intimate consultation. It is perfectly normal and understandable that the OP's teenage daughter feels uncomfortable announcing her bra size in front of several strange men. The shop ought to move the sofa further away from the entrance, that would help to make teenage girls feel more comfortable.

Can you not see that while you may be comfortable carrying underwear and discussing intimate details in earshot of strangers (particularly of the opposite sex), other people are not so comfortable. Teenagers take time to adjust to their changing bodies where they cannot walk down the street without being ogled. Some women may even have past histories of sexual abuse and be suffering from PTSD.

I forget which poster a few pages back said that the next time they went for a fitting, they would take their husband. Heavily implying that they were only doing so now because they were aware that males loitering outside the entrance of women-only spaces makes some women uncomfortable. That poster appeared to take pleasure from the thought that her actions could cause discomfort to adolescents. A disgusting attitude to have.

For God's sake, at least respect that other people want firmer boundaries than you and that they have the right to feel safe.

Backwaterjunction · 26/07/2021 21:01

I don’t get sitting around, although having a bad leg the seats sometimes come in handy in shops but men could be shopping there

feelingmehtoday · 26/07/2021 21:04

Yes, let's not start banning men from hair salons please. Firstly, some of them are staff - I used to get my hair done at a salon that was owned by a man, in fact. Secondly, I spent several hours getting my hair done recently and the only way I could breastfeed my baby during this time was for my partner to bring her into the salon at regular intervals for me to do so. Please, can we apply some common sense. This is getting silly.

Original poster

Woolywolf · 26/07/2021 21:04

@Prokupatuscrakedatus

How about 100% percent segregation of all sexes and genders at all times so that nobody gets a chance to look and think inappropriate thouhgts? And nobody has to think that somebody might feel tempted to look and think inappropriate thouhgts? Wait ...

Reductio ad absurdum

OP posts:

Scubadivinginabox · 26/07/2021 21:09

No one is banning anything! Or would want to. Just expressing an opinion for goodness sake.

feelingmehtoday · 26/07/2021 21:16

@Scubadivinginabox

No one is banning anything! Or would want to. Just expressing an opinion for goodness sake.

You literally said you'd "happily not have men" in a hair salon. Now you wouldn't want to ban them? Which is it?

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