Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

If the men understood anything about bra sizes, they'd be the first straight men in history to do so! You're over reacting a tad, but I can see why you'd be thinking of your daughter

I get this and I wouldn’t like either

@waitingforautumn

I totally see where you are coming from. It's the kind of thing the store should address though (as in where they put the sofas could be better), so might be worth writing to them if it really bothered you.

Even if the poor dads/men were trying not to listen it's impossible not to hear what's being said around you, and they may have felt as uncomfortable as your daughter.

Can see both sides. I wouldn't say YABU though.

I agree. It's not remotely the poor men's fault, but it would be good to place the waiting area for changing rooms a bit away from the waiting area for partners and fathers. There's a womenswear section separately, which would have been a good one.

When I was a teenager, I would have been mortified. And anyone who thinks no men would gawp at teenage girls going to try on bras... how fortunate you've been! Most wouldn't, but some absolutely would. I had some perky old men peer through the armholes of my loose summer frock when I was 10 or so, and starting to develop. A family friend gave me her cardigan and them a very Hard Stare, but it was my first intro to very young life with big boobs - sadly, it was not my last.

I always found bra shopping awful in my teens and early 20s, but at least it was in an all female environment.

Yabvu op

If I was a man I wouldn't want to wait in a lingerie shop, it is a woman's domain.

As a woman it doesn't bother me per se but it galls me that the sofa hoggers don't feel that they should be somewhere else (especially with bored kids).

@ComtesseDeSpair

I’ve discovered that a lot of women are very keen to have their partner/husband within striking distance at all times - it’s very possible the men had been told to sit there and wait by their OHs whilst they were trying things on.

Why though? It's a sad state of affairs when you can't spend any time apart to even get some undies.

Bravissimo has solid doors and even provides robes inside the changing rooms unless this has changed due to covid. Some have the waiting area separate from the changing room but it depends on floor space.

I don’t have a problem with the men waiting for them being men, I have a problem because Covid! Not safe at all.

But I don’t get why you’re embarrassed? Most women wear bras even your mum and grandmother etc. And before those it was corsets they even used to advertise those with pictures in the Victorian era in magazines and newspapers.

And if you feel embarrassed just from talking about bras and holding them you might wanna try your own boundaries by realising that even your parents and grandparents still have carnal relations. I shan’t use the modern word it might embarrass you even more just reading it.

As a man - i seem to spend hours outside shops waiting on partner, or the two girls, finishing their shop. I do go to other shops, but usually i know what i’m getting so i can go get whatever, sometimes two of three shops whilst the girls finish.

Depends what seating is available, my preference is outside, but inside at a push. Partner sometimes wants an opinion and no seating provided is difficult for me to bear, just feels creepy. Lingerie shops, deffo an outside kind of guy, unless opinion on something is required, but after that, outside is better.

They're bras not porn. Nothing to be ashamed of... teach your daughter not to be embarrassed by her body and it's needs/requirements. I get that she's young and embarrassed but Husbands have sat in those chairs for decades they're not doing anything wrong or inappropriate.

My DH would just laugh if I told him to come and wait in the bra shop for me.

@peppermintpat

If I was a man I wouldn't want to wait in a lingerie shop, it is a woman's domain.

As a woman it doesn't bother me per se but it galls me that the sofa hoggers don't feel that they should be somewhere else (especially with bored kids).

And where do you suggest they go? Would you rather they waited by the entrance? If you’re a prude you can buy online and have full return rights thanks to distance selling regulations. If you don’t want other people waiting go first thing in the morning.you can measure yourself with www.booborbust.com/ this little handy tool and bob’s your bra size.

They're bras not porn. Nothing to be ashamed of... teach your daughter not to be embarrassed by her body and it's needs/requirements.

Bollocks. Teach her that her body is her own.

While o don't think it's inappropriate for them to be there, it's unnecessary.

Our shop is in the bridal wear district. You often have men sitting on the sofas while mother and daughter get some new underwear having chosen the dress it can be crucial. They're just there to pay for everything 😂😂

They're really good with post mastectomy fittings. One husband was there to provide a hand hold

@Iseestupidpeople
I am far from a prude ! My OH says he wouldn't want to sit in there either. We're just not joined at the hip.

And the Spotlight effect is something specific to teenagers usually. So yes you should tell her it’s all in her imagination and everyone her age feels like that because they largely do.

Op don't know if you're still following. I just read it through. I have a young daughter and she would be mortified and we would have left the shop. I'd say something to the shop It's their layout. If designed by men they might have though seats outside for partners is a good idea not even realising as women we try to attract help through curtains, discuss issues with assistants and take our daughter and elderly for fittings. So it may be a total blind spot for them.
It's not like you'd come out with underwear on into the shop for a "what do you think moment " so there is no need for the sofa near.
As for any argument about men trying on underwear. Well that really made me 😅

It comes across to me that you are embarrassed by it though and you will pass this on to your DD.

I don’t think this is the case at all…. I am very open about pretty much everything but my daughter is really embarrassed by everything to do with being female… she has been wearing a bra for 3 years and yet I’m not allowed to mention about her bras in front of her dad (he obviously knows she wears one)

And neither are those people but would rather stand in the way of other people for half an hour sit on that Sofa? Your suggestions are just not practical.

And shock horror Bravissimo also sell clothes not most underwear or swim wear.

And sometimes imagine that people buy underwear not just for being practical but for both partners to enjoy, you might want an opinion in that case.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

You're not being unreasonable. There's absolutely no reason why they need to be sitting directly outside the changing rooms and it's high time that shops moved the seating area elsewhere - and made changing rooms for women only.

I know you will have posters telling you that it's fine for men to be there but it isn't, it really isn't. Women first. Men not needed loitering around where they are changing clothes.

Agreed.

Prudery or otherwise aside, I am tired, weary and totally sick of women constantly being forced to cede over their spaces - hospital words, refuges, crisis centres, changing areas: in short any area where their dignity needs preserving and they're in a position of potential vulnerability - to men.

Just look at this thread. People are falling over themselves to find reasons why other women should simply roll over and capitulate to their presence. Girls who who are old enough to need a bra - even if they're not yet old enough to go shopping with their fathers - are still old enough to enter a changing room and be measured up without parental supervision. There do not need to be constant excuses made as to why men simply have to be there.

And as for the women who are unable even to pick out their own bras without soliciting the opinion of their husbands (words fail me!), take a selfie and text it outside.

People with penises should not be populating women's private areas. There are so many very soundly-based reasons as to why they shouldn't be there, and nothing whatsoever convincing that says they should.

As for any argument about men trying on underwear. Well that really made me 😅

Yeah. Check out the way certain-fetishists-who-must-not-be-named were populating the M&S (moderated) lingerie review site, posting all manner of very peculiar stuff, until the press got hold of it, publicised it more widely, and thankfully publicly shamed M&S.

In the meantime a goodly proportion of their core (female) market retreated with a 'meh'.

Men like that are the reason women don't want penises in our changing areas. If men would wish to challenge that (and unless they had nefarious intentions or simply believe women should shove over for them then why would they?) they should take on that issue first.

They won't. It's easier to bully women into submission than it is to deal with issues posed by other men.

OUTSIDE the changing rooms is not a private woman's space, it is a communal place.

YABABU.

It's probably more of a design thing, that the shop should not place the waiting area outside the changing rooms.

People with penises should not be populating women's private areas.

I agree but the waiting area in a shop isn't a women's private area.