Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

[quote beastlyslumber]@pleasedonttextmyman I'm talking specifically about bravissimo[/quote]
bravissimo is a store as any other store. They sell more than bras for a start.

Couldn't the sofas be somewhere else in the shop (if they are actually necessary)?

And for those who require support from husband / father etc - clearly that is a different scenario than a group of men waiting near the changing room?

[quote JustGiveMeGin]@beastlyslumber slippery slope....if things can be just for women then equally things should just be for men, no? Or would that wipeout the equality we have been fighting hundreds of years for [/quote]
Yes, some things should be just for women, in situations where we are vulnerable/half-naked/talking about women-specific things like breasts and vaginas.

And yes, some things should be just for men, like gay saunas or comparing dick sizes or whatever men do that they don't want to share with females.

I don't see what on earth it has to do with equality.

@NerrSnerr

Are you saying *@Woolywolf* that because most girls go shopping for bras with a female the ones who need to go with a man shouldn't?

No, I said that given the choice and when there are two adults available, the vast majority of teen girls would choose to go bra shopping with a woman not a man. I’ve already said I don’t think that men should be banned and I appreciate that there is sometimes a valid reason for men to be there-such as single dads or carers. I said that men should have the social awareness to not linger around bra fitting areas if their presence isn’t required. If they do need to be there fair enough, I’m not suggesting they should be banned, just that they should choose to go elsewhere unless they have to be there. I’d guess that the majority of men waiting in bra fitting areas don’t fall into the category of carers/dads who have a valid reason to be there and are just being a bit inconsiderate/showing a lack of awareness that they may be making women feel awkward by being there unnecessarily-it’s not like they’re enjoying waiting there (hopefully :/) so they may as well be tactful and go elsewhere for the half hour or so a bra fitting takes. If they are just waiting for a a woman to try on a bra herself which takes a few mins then I can see why they would wait, but bravissimo fitting take 20 mins ish which is plenty of time to justify getting a coffee/going to a different shop.

But are husbands not allowed to come into fitting rooms at someplace like the Gap or Next?

No, they aren't, most people know this and leave the changing room to ask for opinions. The same goes for women entering the male changing rooms.

bravissimo is a store as any other store. They sell more than bras for a start.

You're the one generalising here. Bravissimo is a specialist store. It's not the same as a department store or even a general clothing store. You seem to be arguing against a point I'm not making.

Yes, some things should be just for women, in situations where we are vulnerable/half-naked/talking about women-specific things like breasts and vaginas.

In that case, can you advise on what I should have done when I needed to breastfeed my baby in a baby class with a couple of dads present with their babies, please? I was "half naked" as I had to remove my breast from my top, right? Should I have requested he leave the baby group? Or should I have left it?

@beastlyslumber what about pubs, they had rooms just for men? Shall we all crawl back to the kitchen and stay home where we're safe from men?

Blimey, the excuses that some women will give so that their men can be present in women's space. Pathetic!

This. Absolutely this. I'm stunned at the attitudes.

Have you never popped out of the changing room to ask a partner’s opinion? It’s a lot easier if they are waiting just outside.

Never. In fact I don't ever recall going shopping for clothes with DH, in all the 20 years of marriage, let alone needing his opinion.

@JustGiveMeGin Erm... no. What are you talking about?

Blimey, the excuses that some women will give so that their men can be present in women's space. Pathetic!

I am stunned at women ranting that a SHOP is a "safe" and "woman only" space. What the heck do you do in there that you think it's a woman safe zone?!

Reminds me of posters outraged that some stories goes on other sites, while MN is a "safe" and "private" space You know, 119 million unique and anonymous users 😂

@feelingmehtoday

Yes, some things should be just for women, in situations where we are vulnerable/half-naked/talking about women-specific things like breasts and vaginas.

In that case, can you advise on what I should have done when I needed to breastfeed my baby in a baby class with a couple of dads present with their babies, please? I was "half naked" as I had to remove my breast from my top, right? Should I have requested he leave the baby group? Or should I have left it?

You should have got your boobs out and whirled them around singing, hey ho I'm a booby baby feeder!

So do you think there shouldn't be ANY women-only spaces then? Should teen girls have to share all their spaces with boys and men? Is there any space where you think, I'd really feel more comfortable if that man wasn't in here? Or where you'd think, I really would prefer if my teen DD didn't have to do that in front of man?

@pleasedonttextmyman

Blimey, the excuses that some women will give so that their men can be present in women's space. Pathetic!

I am stunned at women ranting that a SHOP is a "safe" and "woman only" space. What the heck do you do in there that you think it's a woman safe zone?!

Reminds me of posters outraged that some stories goes on other sites, while MN is a "safe" and "private" space You know, 119 million unique and anonymous users 😂

😂 You aren't wrong with that comparison

@pleasedonttextmyman

Blimey, the excuses that some women will give so that their men can be present in women's space. Pathetic!

I am stunned at women ranting that a SHOP is a "safe" and "woman only" space. What the heck do you do in there that you think it's a woman safe zone?!

Reminds me of posters outraged that some stories goes on other sites, while MN is a "safe" and "private" space You know, 119 million unique and anonymous users 😂

It's a bloody lingerie shop. For women.

I'm done with this thread, I genuinely never thought MN was a man hating place as most posters seemed quite sensible....apparently not.
I am a woman, I don't feel the need for all of these so called safe spaces and will go about my business (shopping) with my husband as I please. If the sight of him offends anyone too much they can find somewhere safe and come on here to rant about it 🤷‍♀️

You should have got your boobs out and whirled them around singing, hey ho I'm a booby baby feeder!

Thanks for this intelligent response. Complete deflection. Because you no doubt realise that men are in fact a part of life and are often (shock horror) in public places. If we don't think of our bodies as sexual objects ourselves, we can remove this weirdness and just get on with our lives.

I can’t see a problem with them sitting their personally.

Go back a different day if you don’t like it.

So do you think there shouldn't be ANY women-only spaces then? Should teen girls have to share all their spaces with boys and men? Is there any space where you think, I'd really feel more comfortable if that man wasn't in here? Or where you'd think, I really would prefer if my teen DD didn't have to do that in front of man?

Nope - I didn't say there should be NO women only spaces. I said that in communal public places such as shops, it should be accepted that either sex may be present.

Hate it. Wish we could have some safe spaces. An underwear shop definitely is somewhere we should be able to shop without men looking at what we have selected

@JustGiveMeGin

I'm done with this thread, I genuinely never thought MN was a man hating place as most posters seemed quite sensible....apparently not. I am a woman, I don't feel the need for all of these so called safe spaces and will go about my business (shopping) with my husband as I please. If the sight of him offends anyone too much they can find somewhere safe and come on here to rant about it 🤷‍♀️

👏🏻

I’m totally with you op I can not STAND men in lingerie shops. When they look uncomfortable I feel like saying YES, YES YOU SHOULD BE BUGGER OFF!

@wordsareveryunnecessary

Hate it. Wish we could have some safe spaces. An underwear shop definitely is somewhere we should be able to shop without men looking at what we have selected

that's why you have changing rooms...

No one is asking you to try on underwear in the middle of the shop.

In fact I don't ever recall going shopping for clothes with DH, in all the 20 years of marriage, let alone needing his opinion.

What is this "needing" of opinions stuff? It's utterly bizarre to me. I don't "need" my partner's opinion on anything. We just enjoy and value each other's opinions. It's an entirely different concept.

@feelingmehtoday

So do you think there shouldn't be ANY women-only spaces then? Should teen girls have to share all their spaces with boys and men? Is there any space where you think, I'd really feel more comfortable if that man wasn't in here? Or where you'd think, I really would prefer if my teen DD didn't have to do that in front of man?

Nope - I didn't say there should be NO women only spaces. I said that in communal public places such as shops, it should be accepted that either sex may be present.

Well we're not talking about 'shops' - we're talking about bra fitting in a specialist bra shop.

And brought up your breastfeeding class where you clearly expressed a disdain of the idea that any woman would be uncomfortable with men being there.

So I think it was a reasonable question. I'm glad to know you agree that there should be some women-only spaces. I agree. I personally think that the fitting rooms in specialist bra shops should be one of those places, since it is quite personal and intimate, and there really isn't any need for men to be there unless in exceptional circumstances. I mean, I wouldn't ban men outright, but I wouldn't want or expect them to be hanging around there.

Next time I pop in Bravissimo, I AM taking DH with me!