Am I being unreasonable asking for child maintenance

[Bri102]

First time writing a post and it's a bit long so apologies.

I fell pregnant with my son during lockdown, bit of a surprise as I was on birth control. The father straight away said I should get an abortion due to the fact he was unplanned, im so grateful everyday I didn't as my son is a beautiful funny little 6 month old now. The dad has never met him and had changed his mind a few times about meeting him but this has come to a head and he now says it's impossible for him to meet my son, due to the fact I have asked for child maintenance, my maternity leave is ending soon and it is going to cost £600 a month for nursery fees alone.

Whilst I was pregnant I reached out to the father's mum to ask if she wanted a relationship with my son, she jumped at the chance and we have been seeing each other frequently since I was pregnant. Shortly after my son was born she said if she was me she would go for child maintenance, as her son should take some sort of responsibility for my son. However, she came to see my son yesterday and told me im morally wrong to ask for any maintenance as her son did not wish for me to continue the pregnancy and it was my decision and mine alone, he did not have any choice in the matter. She said I should not have continued the pregnancy if I could not financially support the baby myself. I can support the baby and my other son but after the nursery fees, we will not have much left for food and everyday needs. She asked me if I would drop the case as her son has given her the ultimatum of him and her other 2 grandchildren or my son and she is going to chose her son the babys dad, and she is prepared to walk out of my sons life. I'm devastated for my son not only will he feel abandoned by his father but now by his family also. My sons father has also never met his dad and recently tried to contact him and his dad didn't want to know him and denied having a son, it has apparently really effected him, but he is willing to do it to his own son which I cannot understand. Don't know if it's worth noting he already has two other children who he sees twice a week and pays child maintenance for to his ex.

I just want to know if I am in the wrong and should just drop the child maintenance and basically walk away from the family before my son is old enough to remember his nan and aunties who are willing to walk away if the dad is adamant on the ultimatum.

Thanks for reading and any advice, sorry it was long.

Oh...and claim CMS. It's for the child.

And congratulations on your sperm donor with financial benefits 👍🏻

[quote Lostandlonely94]@TheWeeDonkey 😂 I’m not expecting a pat on the head. I just believe in what is fair and I think all these women who are saying equal rights in the work place etc etc. are only interested as long as it serves them.

The law says the woman has a right to claim CMS for her child but the poor man gets shifted with that when he said from the beginning that he was not supporting this decision. The women pretty much trump in all aspects.. can get rid of a baby even if the dad wants the baby, can keep a baby even if the dad doesn’t want the baby.

Maybe having a baby should be more of a legal procedure or contract and all men store their sperm until they are ready to have a baby the woman and man can sign something to say they want to release the sperm to her in order to create a baby but then the man can have a vasectomy so sex is kept for fun not procreation rather than the other way around.

Sperm donation would continue but there would be a different system where men provide their sperm and they sign it away and then women choose from the sperm donations available.[/quote]
😳😳

It just gets worse. Good heavens above. You don't actually believe this do you?

My dd is in her first sexual relationship. She was brought up on the mantra, 'two forms, count 'em, two forms, of contraception, one of them being a condom'.

Luckily her young man was brought up by his mother, with exactly the same mantra!

It's not just pregnancy. It's also STI's. When you sleep with someone, you're sleeping with everyone they ever have, or still are, and have omitted to tell you. If two teenagers who have not had kids, can get this right, why can't a feckless idiot who's already sired two kids cop on to it?

@toocold54 Yes, OP made the decision to be a single parent because the man got to bow out without repercussions. But the maintenance side isn’t about what’s best for OP or the man. It’s about what’s best for the child. The child two adults conceived. And each of those adults have a responsibility to that child, whether they want it or not.

And just for those at the back of the room - an abortion is NOT contraception. It a potentially a traumatic medical procedure. If he didn’t want a baby he should have worn a condom or not PIV sex. It really, really is that straight forward.

@CantBeAssed

"frazzledasarock...I really despair of MN at times....people just post for the sake of something to say regardless of how naive they sound

If that’s about my post asking if your ex earns drug money through PAYE or field tax returns on his profit from drug money.

Let me clarify, CMS will not chase illegal money because as far as they’re concerned it doesn’t exist. They will chase your ex to pay child maintenance from money he earns and declares for tax purposes or from benefits he may be claiming.

You won’t be feeding your child from your ex’s drug dealing money.

I would expect the mother to shoulder the responsibility if she decided to have a baby knowing she was going to get no support.

That is on the mother! As a woman I whole heartedly think that if you know you aren’t going to give a child the best life they could have because you know from day one that you aren’t going to have the support than don’t have the baby. I just think just because you get pregnant doesn’t mean you need to keep it under any circumstances.

Have some thought to who you are producing with and then make the decision whether that child will have from you (and you only) the best chance in life and also if you have children already (like the OP does) think about the implications it would have on your existing child.

I’m not being awful when I say what if the OP had died in labour.. the new baby would have no father because she chose to go ahead knowing he’d not support and her son would be left without a mother. These are implications you have to think of when you go through the child rearing process.

I lost a lot of blood with my second child and I very nearly needed a blood transfusion. I had to have a second EMCS and without my partner by my side to take care of our DD I don’t know how I’d cope.

Again not saying anything bad about the OP or wishing them health but I just think they need to think about the child they are bringing into the world as well.

@toocold54

Love how you haven't been able to reply to any of my valid points.

Lol sorry I didn’t realise you wanted me to reply to every single thing you said.
My point is that you said you are/were in the same situation as OP - but you’re not so it’s irrelevant.

1. Used contraception because I didn't want to get pregnant - partner didn't use anything
2. Fell pregnant after my contraception failed.
3. Partner told me he didn't want a child, wanted me to get abortion.
4. I couldn't go through with termination and continued with the pregnancy.

All very similar and relevant.

No I didn’t miss it I was trying to say that unless you have been in OPs situation you can’t say what you would have done. You can say what you probably would have done but it’s completely different actually being in that situation.

I've been in OP's situation. I went to the CSA. As did the woman he got pregnant and abandoned after me. But in your view it's her and I that are in the wrong and our children shouldn't exist because he chose not to wear a condom. He wanted all the fun with zero consequences when my contraception failed. My child deserved better. As it was he proved to be a prince among men, quit work and started his own company while claiming benefits so my child received a whopping £2.50 per week while their dad wore a Rolex, drove a BMW with personalised number plate and had three foreign holidays a year. Karma got him in the end.

@Lostandlonely94

Legal as in a legal contract because the sperm is taken out of equation with day to day sex. Sperm is stored away for every man to release (however method sperm donation uses) when a woman and man want a baby together (50:50 decision) They both sign to release the form and have equal right and responsibility over any child which is conceived and that is that. Hopefully medically there will be might be a pill or something that men can take to stop sperm being created until he wants to store more. The woman would need to have insemination for the fathers sperm though.

Then sex becomes for fun and fun alone and procreation becomes more of an organised procedure.

Obviously I am making an illogical idea… it might make life easier though 🤨

Surely it would just be easier for men to wear condoms or have a vasectomy if they don't want children. You know, take responsibility for their own reproduction the way women have to?

I don't see how telling his mother to choose will change things. He'll still have to pay whether she sees your son or not.

By crikey, if I were his Mum, I'd be giving him an earful.

But in your view it's her and I that are in the wrong and our children shouldn't exist because he chose not to wear a condom.

WTF where have I ever said you and her are in the wrong and your kids shouldn’t exist! I’d be talking about myself too if that was the case - stop projecting!

All very similar and relevant.

But then the father chose to be involved as you said spending his time and money. That’s completely different.

@toocold54

All very similar and relevant.

But then the father chose to be involved as you said spending his time and money. That’s completely different.

So once again you are saying that it's all on the woman and the man just gets to walk away.

Thank goodness the law says otherwise. Most men are better than this, you know.

Men are fertile all the time and a vasectomy comes with so many more risks.. a woman is fertile when the egg is released so during the ovulation period.

Maybe every woman should be made to track this regularly so that when they are close to the ovulation time of the month they abstain.

stop projecting!

🤣🤣 pot meet kettle.

You're correct in that you haven't said our children shouldn't exist. I mixed you up with someone else there and I apologise for that comment.

However, you have said that it's wrong to apply for CSA in these circumstances, did you not? That if we chose to continue we should allow the man in question to absolve all responsibility? That he's nothing more than a sperm donor?

@Lostandlonely94

Men are fertile all the time and a vasectomy comes with so many more risks.. a woman is fertile when the egg is released so during the ovulation period.

Maybe every woman should be made to track this regularly so that when they are close to the ovulation time of the month they abstain.

seriously .. STOP

you are just embarrassing yourself ...

Or alternatively, men can take responsibility for their fertility issues, and wear a condom, or not have PIV sex if they're not prepared for any and all potential consequences.

I'm fucked if I'm going to be made, or my daughters made to track my fertility cycle, so the lazy buggers can be even lazier.

Every Comment comes down to this.
Man, has sex. Congratulations your a daddy.
She said she was on the Pill, , Congratulations your a daddy.
I wore a condom, Congratulations your a daddy.
I din't wear a condom. Congratulations your a daddy.
I don't want it. Congratulations your a daddy.
I didn't have sex. Congratulations your NOT a daddy.

@BasicDad

A lesson to all men (and mothers/fathers of men)

If you want to avoid boilers that "say" they are on the pill (or would magically want to have a baby despite being on them)...wear your own protection. If you meet a woman that tells you it's OK, she's on birth control (anecdotal, but huge %), then insist on condom or leave.

It's like getting in the passenger seat of a car with no seat belt. You have no control.

That's just bollocks.

A message to all men, including my sons, will be to take responsibility for contraception. It's the same message I give to my daughters.

@Lostandlonely94 or men can use condoms.

Even tracking your fertile days women can still fall pregnant if they have sex on ‘safe’ days, sperm can hang around in a suitable environment for up to five days. And outside factors can affect ovulation. It’s not an exact science hence why women using the rhythm method have a high incidence of falling pregnant.

Why is using a condom so terrible or difficult for men? And instead suggestions are thrown back to put the onus back on to women or even ffs suggestions that proceeding with a pregnancy should be based on a legal contract 🙄 obviously the only one undergoing pregnancy or an abortion and losing bodily autonomy in any of these suggestions is the woman.

@toocold54

All very similar and relevant.

But then the father chose to be involved as you said spending his time and money. That’s completely different.

My point, which you are deliberately missing, is that telling me he didn't want a baby after getting me pregnant does not absolve him of his responsibility - that ship had sailed. Asking me to get an abortion after getting me pregnant does not absolve him of his responsibility - an abortion is not contraception, its not something he can dictate or issue ultimatums on. If he didn't want a baby, the time to make decisions and take action on that was before getting me pregnant.

He chose to contribute to the child he made because it was the right thing to do, under the exact same circumstances that OP is in, because he was equally responsible for OP falling pregnant accidentally.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I had two carloads of boy and girl racers pull up outside our house one, and went out to give them an earful about their noise and rubbish, and ended up going out, having a wine, letting them use the loo, and really talking with them. Once they'd cleaned up the broken glass.

The young women went away with my contraceptive mantra ringing in their ears, which once they stopped laughing they said made very sound sense, and the young men went away looking a little bit sulky that it turned out that they were most probably not getting any that night.

@QueenBee52- at least I’m giving ideas that mean men aren’t just left with this is all your fault so you should pay for it solution.

I’m not going to change my view that men should not be forced to pay for a child they did not want!! How in human nature is that bloody fair?! If money wasn’t a thing (say it didn’t exist) the woman would be accepting that they would be raising the baby alone without support and I bet they would not be any conversation for the two of them to have again.

I don’t think CMS is fair and we can’t all say that we’ve not heard of women abusing contraception because they wish to have a child etc. so sorry if I feel men are hard done by.

They can’t win… they want the baby (tough shit mother doesn’t and has an abortion) and the father doesn’t want a baby (tough shit the mother does so she is keeping it)

Also think men should get the 9 months of maternity/paternity leave like mothers do as well because some dads do want to spend that time with their babies.

@Lostandlonely94

Men are fertile all the time and a vasectomy comes with so many more risks.. a woman is fertile when the egg is released so during the ovulation period.

Maybe every woman should be made to track this regularly so that when they are close to the ovulation time of the month they abstain.

You've over-egged it a tad now, but go on for fun I'll bite.

Vasectomy comes with so many more risks compared to what? Female contraception? Pregnancy? Childbirth? Your source for this?

You're now saying you want to completely absolve men of any responsibility for birth control. You want it to be solely the responsibility of women, and that it's up to us to abstain from sex rather than expecting a man to wear a condom.

You're a woman you say? 🤔