To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

@vivainsomnia
That isn’t how your comments come across…if that’s how a divorced SAHM feels then maybe that is their experience. You don’t know that SAHM didn’t once have a conversation with DH about giving up her career so that he can progress in his. You’re making an assumption based on one set of circumstances.

DC are both at nursery at the moment but it’s unlikely I’ll be returning to work even when they start school (unless I can find a part time job in a school). There are school holidays to consider along with drop off and pick up. sickness, etc. It doesn’t make sense for us. We live in a small village so there’s a commute to school then a commute to work. Yes, it’s doable but why make life more difficult for all of us. We don’t want to rely on relatives for childcare for aforementioned reasons.

I also have a DSD that is with us half the school holidays….I’m a MN fave, a SAHM and a SM. The ultimate person to flame 💁🏻‍♀️

@Katedanielshasakitty Absolutely - some just love to judge/label/pigeonhole. It’s a great shame.

@SAHMavectwinnies Again,

@vivainsomnia
Why do you assume SAHM gave up their careers against their will?!

I’m not even 30yo and I’m super pleased I did. IF I wanted to go back to work then DH would support me (even though we couldn’t afford it). There’s no bitterness or resentment here…I don’t know many SAHMs that do have those feelings.

Even if they did, they could choose to do something about it.

It does happen in RL though - the viewing SAHM as lesser people (and less interesting) because they were unable, or not desirous, to have a family AND a successful career. It absolutely happens. Particularly in a group of school-mum friends/acquaintances, most of whom do work.

It happens to both. So it's not sahm are looked down on.

Its that some people (and its often women) look down on other women regardless of working or staying at home.

[quote Katedanielshasakitty]@pinkfanman it's fairly common. Though I have never been refused a job on the basis a man should have been supporting me.

When I went back to work after having ds (8 years ago) some of the older women who had been sahp, whole their kids were young were vile.

And the mention of me just working for pin money.

Its continued through my career. Though not as bad as when I first went back.

But even now people can't reconcile the fact that I have a senior job, have kids (and was a single parent at one point) and I under 40. Though, I admit, it's even worse when they also know I don't have a degree.

In my current job, when I joined and would chat to people, people becomes convinced the owner must have been a family friend or known me before. Lots refused to accept I had been head hunted into the role. It must have been a favour.

So I have been judged as not only a bad parent but also been judged on wether I am suitable for a role by people based on the fact that I am a parent. As though you can't be a mother, to children who aren't adults, and very good at your job.

This is why I don't believe generally, people hate sahms. I don't believe people generally hate wohm either. There's just some dicks who really like to make people feel shit about whatever situation they have going on.[/quote]
What's fairly common? We have women work for us who've had successful careers, had children - husbands had to do the lion's share of the childcare as the job requires travel and anti-social hours - no one is interested in their arrangements to the point where we'd bother to judge - who gives a shit? And they are older and they are still bloody working and highly valued for the work they do - just like the men!

Maybe people need to get on with running their own lives - I don't get all this small minded bollocks. Live your own lives people - other people's choices have fuck all to do with you! There are too many bloody interfering busy bodies, employ your brain thinking about something that concerns yourself.

A HR Director told me that her parents were basically raising her kids so she didn’t have to

Do working dads not raise their kids either or is it just working mums?

@Katedanielshasakitty It does happen to both - I have acknowledged that. I was stating that the comments and arguments/generalisations here do surface in real life.
I think it is more prevalent that SAHM are looked down on. This thread is an example of the theorising about why to be a SAHM perhaps shouldn’t be a valid choice.
It’s not a scientific survey, however. If it makes you happy, I will add ‘IMO’ and a bit of ’IME’ for good measure.

@pinkfanman negative attitudes to women who work.

And it's appears women who don't.

It doesn't really matter what other women have done. Women still face crap for working in the UK now. Some women still face crap, for staying at home. In the UK right now.

Its not a sahp vs wohp. Its 'why do people enjoy sitting on women?' Debate.

shitting on women, obviously

@crinklyfoil

childcare will take all my wage- nope it’s a joint expense

I do get this one though.

Let’s say you have two working parents. Dad earns £2500 after tax etc and mum earns £1100. Childcare for two children is £1500.

So yes if mum pays for half the childcare she’s still making £750 ‘profit’ but a relationship shouldn’t really work like that. It still means that the family unit operates at a loss.

Why is man earning more than woman? Who is paying pension contributions? For both. Childcare is short term expenses to be shared out of common earnings short term this example tge couple "lose" but that is expenses of having kids. but over longer term both gain Paid holiday Job prospects Pension

@mafted

That doesn't even make sense.

Working is not opting out of parenting.

That's the point. But men can use to work to opt out and that's all fine and accepted.

Women want to work and be a parent and it's a negative.

Plenty of women balance work and parenting. But are allowed to use work to do very little and its acceptable.

The example used was the pp saying
My husband obviously relishes the challenge. He knows he would hate looking after our child full time,
It was argued that if a woman said this she would be judged.
What I'm asking is should the Men that say this be judged too or should all parents be able to say they'd hate to look after the children full time?

They're not judged, that's the point! They are sometimes even praised! As they have been here.

Men who are shit at, and averse to, too much parenting, are viewed largely as normal or even good guys for it. Women get no such treatment.

And the fact that, when this is pointed out, your response is "our only options are two shit judgements, which one is preferable" tells me a lot about how ingrained this attitude is and how desperately some people wish to hold on to it. Ask yourself why.

Of course women should also be able to say they aren't suited to being at home full time. Are we ever going to be praised as great women if we do, do you think?

@whistlers

I wonder if cave men and women ever had these arguments?

Pretty sure the evidence shows that cave women hunted and foraged. An anthropologist might be able to say for certain.

@DanniDuck

Well. This thread, particularly the last 10 pages, proves the OP's point. That some people working mums/working women are vile towards stay at home mums.

I said it before and I will say it again. It's pure jealousy. You wouldn't feel the need to bash and berate others lifestyles if you were happy with your own.

Honestly, you seem to be repeating the same point every few pages, which shows you have a real bang up about your choices. The only way you can justify your choices is by saying other people are jealous of you. There is nothing to be jealous of someone who is so so insecure about their own situation.

viva - you must realise, it’s never as simple as “giving up your career against your will.” Ok, some women might have a husband who says, “I forbid you to work.” That’s a whole other matter. But, more often it’s far more subtle than that - eg. “Darling, I’ve been offered this amazing job in HK with all school fees paid and an amazing house paid for. The bonuses could sort us out for life. Let’s go and give it 2 years.” So she goes, 2 years turn into 6 and then when they return, she has a bigger than anticipated gap in her CV and he earns so much money at that stage it’s hard to justify going to work for money that would be negligible in the context of the family finances.

Or maybe you have a child with SEN. You might have planned to return to work, but you find your priorities change.

Sometimes you do what seems economically or practically the right thing at the time. But one decision compounds the next - like a “drip drip” effect. Life is a constant flux and you have to adapt.

So I can understand how a woman who has facilitated her husband’s career long-term might only fully appreciate the “sacrifice” this has entailed at a later stage. Some men may not explicitly tell you not to work, but nevertheless, unconsciously or otherwise, they can make it very very difficult for you to even think about it. As someone once said to me , “You don’t see the gilded cage while you’re in it.”

As for your depiction of the workaholic or extreme career-focused men who, when all is said and done, would rather have been at home all these years - er, where are this lot hiding? My husband wouldn’t have lasted a week, frankly.

There are pros and cons to most choices in life. I only hope to get the balance right for me and my family, which (I would think) is what most people try and achieve.

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@Katedanielshasakitty It does happen to both - I have acknowledged that. I was stating that the comments and arguments/generalisations here do surface in real life.
I think it is more prevalent that SAHM are looked down on. This thread is an example of the theorising about why to be a SAHM perhaps shouldn’t be a valid choice.
It’s not a scientific survey, however. If it makes you happy, I will add ‘IMO’ and a bit of ’IME’ for good measure.[/quote]
But this thread is about people not like sahp. So people are sharing their opinions on sahp.

Many people have shared their experiences and a couple of links, where the attitude to wohm on mn has been vile. Some of the stufff on this thread towards working parents has been foul.

And in real life, wohm often get shit on for being a parent who works in and outside work.

I don't believe there any benefit to working out 'who has it worst'

I don't judge anyone for the reasons they made the decision they did. However, it's clear that shit goes both ways.

I can’t imagine anything worse than marrying a rich workaholic. DH prioritises his time with us as a family which is more important to me than how much money he brings in.
Sometimes life doesn't follow your desired path though.
When we met DH worked 8:30-5 with a ten minute commute, I was studying and working part time. Neither of us could have imagined us being where we are today.

If one of you had to work away from home several days a week for a set period but in doing that you could have your lottery win meaning there would never be any financial worries for yourselves or your children again you might find you change your priorities too.

I said it before and I will say it again. It's pure jealousy

No jealousy whatsoever. I have no desire to be unemployed, have no financial independence or have someone else fund my every need. Nor do I have a husband that claims he could only do his job if I quit mine.

There is so very much more to an individual than whether they work or not, or what their job isUnless you are a highly influential figure, most people’s jobs are irrelevant
Do you homeschool, do your own healthcare, did you deliver your own babies, do your own dental check up, drive on your own roads?
Seriously how on earth can you say peoples jobs are irrelevant ?
Or do you mean mens BIG important jobs are important but womens arent?

I said it before and I will say it again. It's pure jealousy

Then you will still be both wrong and blinkered

Not jealous of a SAHM. I wouldn't want a life of relying on somebody else's money. I would find it very disempowering. No thanks.

I said it before and I will say it again. It's pure jealousy

It really isn't. If you read this thread you will see a large proportion of women who work saying they couldn't bear to be at home full time. Not making a judgement on this perspective but they can't all be lying.

There are multiple reasons why this is such an emotive subject on both sides but its way too simplistic to put it all down to jealousy.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I said it before and I will say it again. It's pure jealousy

No jealousy whatsoever. I have no desire to be unemployed, have no financial independence or have someone else fund my every need. Nor do I have a husband that claims he could only do his job if I quit mine.

Not working is not the same as being unemployed

@Viviennemary

Not jealous of a SAHM. I wouldn't want a life of relying on somebody else's money. I would find it very disempowering. No thanks.

But it's not someone else's money. It's our money.