DD gaslighting me/missing stuff

[BelleClapper]

I genuinely feel like we’re going a bit mad here.

Our house is fairly chaotic, we both work long hours and have kids 18,17,9 plus dogs. So everyone’s a bit in and out and there’s no real structure. So that’s the background.

I earn tips at work and keep them in a jar. I count it when it looks full and last month (?) had £140. Also DH had a random two pound coins on the kitchen side, I had a fiver on my bedside table.

DD (17) is currently not working or at college. We’re off her case because it wasn’t getting us anywhere but we’ve stopped giving her money.

The fiver and two random coins have gone. She is denying any involvement. I can’t 100% say we haven’t moved it or one of the other kids have. But my money box now has £40 in it Again, feel a bit mad because we do chip into it for like ice creams at school or bus fare for DS for work. But it does look like it’s depleted far too much.

Tonight, and please forget any judgements for smoking because I KNOW, she popped in for ten minutes with the boyfriend to get changed before going out; I went to smoke after they left and found one cig in my pack, now I’m not that on top of things but I know I would know if I was down to a few.

I’ve sent her a text and got a barrage of ‘I can’t believe you think I’d do that’ back.

I honestly feel like I’m losing it. I can’t directly accuse her because she just tells me I’m scapegoating her. I can’t be 100% about it because we are a bit sketchy about leaving cash etc around. But also she has no funds but still manages to go out all the time and it all adds up.

How do I approach this without calling her a filthy thief? She is 17 and on the cusp of doing what I did as a teenager; moving out and living rough for a few years because parents are So Awful so I’m trying to tread lightly but I also don’t want her to become accustomed to petty theft.

All advice welcome. My last thread went to shit and got replicated in a zillion tabloids so I’m braced for being told I’m an awful parent so bring it. What the actual jeffing fuck do I do?

[CasparBloomberg]

I’m baffled by the responses saying to stop her stealing, everyone else has to change their behaviour and live in a fortress. Families should be able to live together and trust each other. There’s no such thing as an open invitation to theft or it wouldn’t be a crime, they know what they’re doing is wrong.
Someone is stealing and you don’t know who. If they’re stealing from you, they could be stealing from others too. If you lock things up, it doesn’t take away their ability to steal, they’ll just steal less from you and you’ll have no idea what’s going on. It also feels like there’s a massive trust breakdown here that needs resolving unrelated to the stealing.

I’d be identifying the culprit before going any further. Nanny cam type set up. Find out who it is and be absolutely sure. Then it’s how you go about confronting it - if it’s dd then unless you want to alienate her further, do it with love. She’s let you and herself down and needs to honestly reflect on that, but also needs a way out for herself that doesn’t destroy her belief that this was a blip, that she isn’t defined by this, can recover from this and you still love her.

Plus stop treating your kids differently. If she already feels like she’s treated worse, this is never going to work out well.

[Lougle]

I didn't see the other thread, I just went off apprenticeship wages. She was still paying a lot more proportionally though.

[sadie9]

Accusing her by text instead of sitting down and talking to her probably isn't a good way to communicate. It's avoiding a conversation with her.

[willowmelangell]

£10 nanny cam. Linked to your phone. Easy to set up and hide, silent too. Choose one with night vision.
It is how I found out which cat was was 'going' in a room corner. It wasn't the cat I thought!

[LemonTT]

People steal for a lot of reasons which often boil down to a few things. The first one is that they believe they have a need for whatever it is they are taking. At 17, she is unable to differentiate between wants and needs. Boredom will just add to that.

The second one is because they can. And that’s something that can be addressed. Most people would act to remove the opportunity. They would at least act to demonstrate that the items have value and are missed.

The OPs reluctance to remove the opportunity could be a sign of a much deeper dysfunction in the relationship here. That the OP wants her daughter to live down to her expectations.

[borntobequiet]

Stop leaving money lying around.

[DrinkFeckArseBrick]

I cant see there is much more you can do OP. The choices are talk to her or physically stop her taking your stuff by locking it away or set up a camera to catch her or some other kind of trap so that you have proof.
You could have another chat to say how hurt you are that someone is taking your things and how it's making it difficult to trust anyone and upsetting you etc but honestly do you think she will give a shit, if she has been regularly stealing from you and lying about it

[Guavafish]

Sounds like your DD is very troubled and lost. She has no respect for herself or you if she is stealing.

I agree with everyone - you need to be more sure of your cigarettes and money, especially if you feel someone is stealing.

Second tell her of your concerns and worries. Can you speak to her? Sit her down and reach out to her? What would you do if you did caught her stealing?

[PersonaNonGarter]

The problem is you need to get a bit more of a grip on your own things and your own space.

Your DD is being feckless because your home and life is as it is.

Where’s your DP in all of this?

[Mummyoflittledragon]

I agree with Icedcoffee. You cannot expect your dd to live on nothing and paying her to do things for pin money seems reasonable. Otherwise you’re setting your dd up for failure as taking money probably seems like her only option at this moment in time. And you cannot expect her to get a job without help. She sounds very lost.

I bet your dd sees her brother as doing something she cannot possibly achieve and part of her will be thinking so why bother. She clearly believes you favour and as you’re not helping her, she’s not likely to change her perceptions. It doesn’t matter if you favour your ds or not. Your dd is in trouble. She needs you even if she doesn’t want to admit it.

I didn’t comment on your thread about the £250 but you’re clearly incredibly harsh expecting her and her brother to pay you rent immediately they get a job. You don’t appear to be desperate for the money so a grace period of a few months would have been good. Taking cash straight away seems to have disincentivised her whereas it has incentivised your ds. Different strokes for different folks.

You seem to be a very black and white thinker whilst being wildly chaotic yourself. By expecting her to remember every time she took cash (if indeed she did) when you cannot remember if you even put it there in the first place, you are holding her to a different standard to the one you hold yourself. Being busy is not an excuse. You have a chaotic personality and it appears your dd does too. Your ds otoh appears not to be this way inclined.

If you want your dd to succeed, you need to show her the way and organise yourselves better. You also need to get away from this mindset that shrinking her world and her possibilities to change her life is going to help with her future or your relationship with her. Just because she’s 17, it doesn’t mean she needs no guidance.

[HerMammy]

All this ‘chaotic’ nonsense, we all have busy lives and can be a bit organised, just stop leaving money lying about! I don’t casually leave £100+ lying to be taken by whomever.

[Ivy48]

Don’t confront her, just change how to do things and you’ll soon forgets out of it’s her. All cash is hidden/locked up and take away the options for her to be light fingered. When she stops having any nice things in the coming weeks and keeps asking for cash you’ll know. I wouldn’t confront it as for sure she’ll go on the defensive but if you hide it all, she will know that you know

[DGFB]

Don’t set a trap, that’s an awful thing to do.
But lock up your money in one of those cash boxes with a key and keep your fags on you in a bag.
The stealing will soon stop. Better then going around accusing the kids.
I used to steal cash quite a bit as a kid (no idea why) but if it hadn’t been accessible I would have had to stop

[LakieLady]

I appreciate the advice re locking my bedroom, I really do, so don’t think I’m being flippant. But no. That’s nuts. I want to know how to get it through to her that my stuff is not her stuff

I know she takes my hair straighteners, makeup, scissors, nail files etc. So it’s not a huge leap to think she is taking the cash/fags. I want to know tactics to get it through to her, a lock won’t do that.

And I know from history that telling her she’s taking stuff, and to not do that, doesn’t work. I don’t want to live in a fortress

She already knows that your stuff isn't her stuff, OP. But it's not making any difference. She either doesn't give a shit or she feels an element of justification because she feels that in some way (not necessarily financially) she's treated less favourably than her siblings.

For now, I don't see any alternative to locking stuff away. I'd get a small safe or cash box for cash, big enough to take your purse and DH's wallet, in case this escalates to using cards, and keep your straighteners, make up etc locked in your room.

All the while temptation is in her path it won't stop, and confronting her about it is making her feel singled out. I suspect that in her head she's only taking what she's entitled to.

I'd also explain to the whole family, in neutral terms, that things, including money, have been going missing and therefore, you have had to take the step of locking stuff away.

I can't think of any other way that is going to stop this without adding to the sense of grievance she's probably feeling.

[BelleClapper]

@Soontobe60

What’s awful here is that a 17 year old, still legally a child, is (probably) resorting to taking money that doesn’t belong to her because she has no access to any other money, and her mother is ranting about it.
OP, she is your child and you don’t sound like you care about her at all. What are you doing to help her? You’re her role model, her support, her parent! Instead, you predict that she’s going to leave home, be homeless, penniless, and god knows what else. Is that what you wanted for her when you first held her in your arms?

I’m not predicting that, for fucks sake. Can’t people read? I’m trying to fucking AVOID it because it’s what happened to me. It’s my worst nightmare for her.

She had money. She got paid on the 4th July, her last pay check after getting the sack. She had £800. By the 14th July she was asking me for money. She spent £800 in ten days.

She’s not some poor abused child with no recourse to funds. She is, to use the term that was used about me at that age, off the rails somewhat. I am asking for advice here, not a fucking kicking.

She has apparently got a job but hasn’t started yet. We never see her, she comes home to get changed and goes out again. And, it seems, she helps herself to cash and fags when she does.

[Mayaspecialist]

Op you asked for help how to handle this.

People have told you, but you just don't seem to want anyone's advice. Between this and the other thread, I think your dd might be right.

You, appear, to have very different attitudes to your oldest and youngest, to the one you have to your dd. On the other thread, you say she has classic 'middle child syndrome' why do you think that is?

Do you think that just comes out of nowhere? Do you think your chaotic life, that can't possibly be improved or have any changes made to it, is contributing?

Many people have kids, have both people working, but would also not leave money laying around or not be able to keep track of their money and possessions.

You seem to want help. But only want a really specific type of help, that you don't seem to be getting.

[Wrenegade]

Hi OP,
I don’t have any teenage kids but being a teen wasn’t so long ago so might be able to offer another insight.

I disagree with pps that suggest a trap. If you think she is ‘gaslighting’ you and don’t think it is fair it isn’t setting an example to trap her.

I do however think it is your responsibility to keep your own things safe and out of the way. If it is her, you need to remove the temptation. I understand what you’re saying about her borrowing your make up and straighteners and wanting her to leave your things alone but at least with those items that isn’t happening so in the short term you need a solution.

More than anything it sounds like she could do with the encouragement to get a job and become a bit more financially responsible and have her own money and things e.g. make up and straighteners. What is more important here, being able to prove and catch her or end the behaviour?

When I was a young child I often lied and unfortunately that perception of me followed me through to being a teen. My mum would never drop it, despite no longer lying or stealing. I would become upset and defensive even in the face of not having done something because I expected the blame, often making me look more guilty.

Again, I’m sorry I don’t want to sound patronising but I don’t think a teen stealing and potentially lying about it is the correct use of the word gaslighting.

[BelleClapper]

The reason I feel gaslighted is because she will look me in the eye and tell me there was no money there. That she hasn’t touched my stuff. That I’m accusing her for no reason. She will do this even when I’m standing in her bedroom holding my hairbrush that I’ve just picked up off her floor. Someone else must have put it there, she says.

So last night when I sent her a text saying, er did you take some fags, and she text back saying no mother, are you drunk, why would I, I don’t smoke (she does), you must have smoked them, then yes I do feel gaslit.

[DancyNancy]

A locked box with the key on a chain around your neck.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

it’s what happened to me. It’s my worst nightmare for her.

I'm sorry to read your update, OP - I very strongly get the sense that you are trying to help her avoid something that you deeply regret for yourself.

I hope that this is capable of some resolution because it must be so troubling for all of you as a family.

[BelleClapper]

Also I don’t think it’s particularly chaotic to keep loose change on the nightstand or not lock away my hair straighteners but people love to pick up on one word and go with it.

[KormasABitch]

I've only read YOUR posts, OP, not the full thread, so apologies if someone else has suggested this -- but could you not set up a little motion-sensor camera? They're quite cheap nowadays and can be fitted discreetly. You need to know what's actually happening before saying anything to anyone. For all you know, the cat has learned some very special skills!

Sorry for some of the odd raging comments you're having to defend yourself against.

[mam0918]

Well set a 'trap' first of all.

That sounds bad but it basically means get on top of tracking your own shit so you KNOW if anything goes walkabout because you cant accuse her without even knowing if anythings really even missing.

[onelittlefrog]

Firstly you need to keep a better eye on your stuff and make sure you know how much money you have, and where you have put it.

It's rubbish and you shouldn't have to do it, but you do.

Once you have a better knowledge of how much money you have, and ideally, put it out of her reach somewhere she doesn't know about, then see if her lifestyle changes at all.

If she no longer has money to go out etc. when your money isn't as easily accessible, you'll know where she was getting it from.

You don't have to directly accuse her but you can make sure she knows you know someone is stealing from you. Tell her that you have a much closer eye on things now and will know if things go missing.

Also - more importantly - clamp down on this not working/ not in education nonsense. Honestly, if you think you're doing her a favour by letting her live with you whilst she's not doing anything with herself, you're wrong - you are enabling her. She won't have an enabler forever. I know you worry about your relationship etc., but try not to let what happened to you as a teenager influence the way you parent. She needs to know that she can't live this way forever.

[AbsolutelyPatsy]

yay she has a job starting soon.

just lock your money away.
she helps herself to cash and fags.
just leave it op, be there for her, non judging, you know what is going on, bite your lip, lock stuff away, and either talk to her, offer her money to see her through,
just be a listening ear