DD gaslighting me/missing stuff

[BelleClapper]

I genuinely feel like we’re going a bit mad here.

Our house is fairly chaotic, we both work long hours and have kids 18,17,9 plus dogs. So everyone’s a bit in and out and there’s no real structure. So that’s the background.

I earn tips at work and keep them in a jar. I count it when it looks full and last month (?) had £140. Also DH had a random two pound coins on the kitchen side, I had a fiver on my bedside table.

DD (17) is currently not working or at college. We’re off her case because it wasn’t getting us anywhere but we’ve stopped giving her money.

The fiver and two random coins have gone. She is denying any involvement. I can’t 100% say we haven’t moved it or one of the other kids have. But my money box now has £40 in it Again, feel a bit mad because we do chip into it for like ice creams at school or bus fare for DS for work. But it does look like it’s depleted far too much.

Tonight, and please forget any judgements for smoking because I KNOW, she popped in for ten minutes with the boyfriend to get changed before going out; I went to smoke after they left and found one cig in my pack, now I’m not that on top of things but I know I would know if I was down to a few.

I’ve sent her a text and got a barrage of ‘I can’t believe you think I’d do that’ back.

I honestly feel like I’m losing it. I can’t directly accuse her because she just tells me I’m scapegoating her. I can’t be 100% about it because we are a bit sketchy about leaving cash etc around. But also she has no funds but still manages to go out all the time and it all adds up.

How do I approach this without calling her a filthy thief? She is 17 and on the cusp of doing what I did as a teenager; moving out and living rough for a few years because parents are So Awful so I’m trying to tread lightly but I also don’t want her to become accustomed to petty theft.

All advice welcome. My last thread went to shit and got replicated in a zillion tabloids so I’m braced for being told I’m an awful parent so bring it. What the actual jeffing fuck do I do?

[CoolCatTaco]

Aren't you the poster who was taking money from your DD when she was on an apprenticeship and planning to give said money to your DS at uni? And argued relentlessly with anyone who disagreed with you?
Maybe she thinks she's entitled to your money the way you thought you were entitled to hers.

[Anordinarymum]

@CoolCatTaco

Aren't you the poster who was taking money from your DD when she was on an apprenticeship and planning to give said money to your DS at uni? And argued relentlessly with anyone who disagreed with you?
Maybe she thinks she's entitled to your money the way you thought you were entitled to hers.

Oh dear. I remember that thread. If this is the same person I regret posting on this thread.

[BelleClapper]

DDs apprenticeship lasted about six weeks.

DS got a job about a week after my original thread, he’s earning c£1400 a month and paying £150 in keep which includes his phone, DD was paying £250 which included £100 petrol for nearly two hours a day driving her there and back. He will be working and paying his way through Uni and not being supported. When I posted my first thread I was uninformed and sideswiped by his sudden choice to go to university after two years of saying he wasn’t. DD meanwhile was asked to leave college for not completing work and then the same with her apprenticeship.

[FangsForTheMemory]

It sounds as though her stealing is just part of a much bigger problem.

[Soubriquet]

I would let it go because I think the more you push, the more a fall out will happen

Instead, I would be getting a lock box and making sure nothing that is tempting is left out.

[NumberTheory]

@BelleClapper

I appreciate the advice re locking my bedroom, I really do, so don’t think I’m being flippant. But no. That’s nuts. I want to know how to get it through to her that my stuff is not her stuff

I know she takes my hair straighteners, makeup, scissors, nail files etc. So it’s not a huge leap to think she is taking the cash/fags. I want to know tactics to get it through to her, a lock won’t do that.

And I know from history that telling her she’s taking stuff, and to not do that, doesn’t work. I don’t want to live in a fortress.

I don't think you are going to get through to her. If talking to her about not taking people's stuff would do it, she would have taken that lesson on board by now wouldn't she?

At the moment she's getting away with it. Possibly, if you catch her in the act of actually stealing she'll feel shamed and it will stop and she'll buck her ideas up. But I think it's probably a fairly slim chance that will work. More likely she'll feel picked on and act out because of it.

Keeping better tabs on your stuff so that she doesn't have the easy pickings at home may help but it's not just you and DH that will have to do this. Once that door is shut she'll probably turn to her siblings and while your 18 year old may be able to hold his own (I doubt he'll be quite as willing to believe her excuses as you want to be) your 9yr old will be vulnerable. Even if you manage with that, it may make her angry and increase here acting out rather than force her into considering how she can forge an adult life where she aims to support herself.

She sounds really lost. While I know the thefts are infuriating I assume the seeing her in this state is also kind of heart breaking? I'm not sure there's much you can do that at this stage, though as she's probably primed to reject any input you provide. Are there any adults (family or friends of yours?) that she might be more open to accepting help and guidance from?

[Iwastheparanoidex]

Oh. If that was you then yeah you’ve got bigger problems. That thread was awful you seemed to have no insight into how you were making your daughter feel and you just stuck to your guns.

She’s clearly very unhappy.

Have you thought of family therapy?

[TheGumption]

Oh I remember that thread!
I feel sorry for your daughter tbh.

[burritofan]

So you “can’t 100% say” the fiver and coins weren’t moved by you or the other kids, but it’s definitely DD. You don’t know how many fags you had, but it’s definitely DD. You had £140 last month but then say “(?)” so the date you had £140 is in question; and you say you’re chaotic so I’m guessing don’t really stay on top of dates, and have been dipping into it for buses and ice creams, so it could have easily been depleted over the unspecified length of time… but it’s definitely DD.

I think you need to draw a line and start again. Sort the chaos. Stop leaving loose change around. Count the jar and write down the date. Keep track of buses, ice creams, parking money, etc. Actually know how much money you have, and when. Until then you’re just blaming DD for your own disorder.

[KatherineJaneway]

@FangsForTheMemory

It sounds as though her stealing is just part of a much bigger problem.

Agree

[Butchyrestingface]

I worked with a woman once whose daughter did something similar. They had a ceramic pot that was packed to the gunnels
with money and the daughter bought an identical one from the internet and smashed the one with the money in it.

That level of cunning shows a high degree of ingenuity. Very wrong but at the same time...

[DancesWithTortoises]

She's a thief, OP.

Get a safe and don't let her near it.

[Tiredmum12389]

Learning from how I was as a teenager. It could be her or either of the other two, or all of them a little bit thinking no one will notice. Also little things like ice creams and change for bits and pieces adds up so quickly,and its so easy to forget what you may or may not have used it for. I would lock any thing you don't want taken away and learn from this. You have no proof so I wouldnt risk her thinking you don't trust her.

[PercyPigandMe]

Well, I'd be keeping my money etc safe for a start but there's a bigger issue at play which I'd be keen to explore with her

You say you feel she may end up leaving and living rough. That seems like such a big leap from currently not working and having no money to living on the streets. 17 year olds need money or they become desperate I suppose. So I'd be sitting with her to discuss her future, what she might like to do and how we could work together so we were both happy

In other words, don't set her up to fail and don't back her into a corner with nowhere to go
She's 17. Young. She needs your support.

I'm assuming you're a 'normal' family though with no huge backstory of abuse etc etc but I suspect there's a lot more to it

[PercyPigandMe]

Ah. Just read @CoolCatTaco post. I think you've got issues with your parenting

[CatalinaCasesolver]

Just remove the temptation. Trying to 'get through to her' won't work.

[tallduckandhandsome]

Why is the money jar still available?! Get a lockable box.

[CatalinaCasesolver]

Just read updates, and yes I agree with pp there is a much bigger issue going on here. She resents you

[Darkstar4855]

Lying to cover up a theft is not the same as gaslighting. Gaslighting is a considered series of lies for the purpose of making the victim feel as though they can’t trust their reality and they’re going mad. It’s a horrible form of emotional abuse.

It’s not the same as your teenager lying on the spot about nicking a fiver and a few fags from you. op

[Imissmoominmama]

If she looks for work, she can claim benefits, can’t she?

Help her with that. Give her a small weekly allowance, if not, on the proviso that she looks for paid work.

Nobody can manage with no money at all, so I’m not surprised she’s being sneaky if she hasn’t any coming in at all.

[AbsolutelyPatsy]

if she is stealing and you lock the money up, there is no more stealing, but the problem remains
she needs help
she needs money so she needs to find a job/college but IF she is stealing she doesnt need a job.

[AbsolutelyPatsy]

lock the money away

[AbsolutelyPatsy]

help her find work, care work

[LemonRoses]

You need an honest conversation where you are clear you love and accept her, but don’t accept stealing. It’s far more common than you think and not necessarily indicative of huge maladjustment.

Don’t tiptoe around the edges. Direct, factual, non-judgemental and listening conversation.She might shout and rant, but she’ll get over it. Stick to your guns that talking money is stealing and wrong.

Keep cash out of temptations way too. Address her smoking whilst you’re at it.

Then sort the chaos. Know what money you have. Build in some structure and parenting time. Show her you love her - and the others too. Your other two will go down a problem route if you are just passing each other for a few minutes here and there.

[icedcoffees]

I remember your last thread - there are more issues at play than you've let on to in your OP.

Personally I think it's unrealistic to expect a 17yo to live with no money, so I would be paying her to do things like walking the dogs, cooking meals and doing the food shop until she gets a job of her own. It's not ideal but nothing about COVID is ideal and your set up sounds incredibly chaotic which can be very tough for kids and teens to cope with.

Finding work isn't easy at the moment - especially if you both work long hours and she can't drive herself around. The only jobs really available are hospitality and retail but how can she get there if she doesn't drive and has no funds to pay for transport?