To think work will think I'm taking the piss if I have a third baby

[tagisakindrhino]

DH and I are starting to plan for our third.

I was on mat leave for a year in 2018 back for a year in 2019, then mat leave again for a year in 2020.

If all works out I'd potential be on mat leave for 2022/23.

My only reluctance really is work, I feel they will say I'm taking the piss (not as directly as that obvs). But with the first, it's like "fine", second child "well I suppose it's what everyone does", third child "oh for goodness sake!".

I could take less than a year's mat leave, maybe 6 months and share the rest with DH, but I think the guilt of not breastfeeding for a year like I did with the other two would weigh heavy.

Anyway, do you think I'm being unreasonable to think that most employers/managers think like this?

I just don't know how I'd justify apart from it's the size of family DH and I have always wanted.

[quote Itsprobablynotcominghome]@Blossomtoes

Here being the U.K.? Maybe birth rates are falling but population is still net positive.[/quote]
Perhaps. We still need more young people. A society that’s disproportionately old isn’t healthy - or fair.

In some cases it will be because the manager is a misogynistic prick who hates women, in others it will be someone who is quite understandably frustrated because his budget has been blown to shit

Tbf it's not always men although I'm sure the vast majority are.

When I had my (only) child and returned to work when they were just 18 weeks my female, late 50s, boss was an absolute cow. She clearly had s massive chip on her shoulder about women these days getting any kind of maternity leave and having a job to come back to when it hadn't been the case for her.

My colleague (the former company owners DD) was pregnant at the same time but in the fortunate position of being able to leave altogether at 5 months and was treated very differently.

I know someone who had three consecutive linked maternity periods of leave as the age gap between each child was less than a year. She was off on almost full pay for about 2.5 years.

Don't worry what people think. I've found over the years, especially at work, people will bitch about anything. None of their business.

Love the contrast between this thread and the benefits two child rule thread. Of course you should have your baby and claim your full (state supported) maternity leave.

Some people at work will think you are taking the piss but they'll get over it.

This isn't really the point of what you asked, but I went back to work when my DS was 6 1/2 months and I breastfed until he was well over a year. He did have some formula between then and his first birthday but alongside breastfeeding and solids. Most women's supply is well established by then so that they can carry on breastfeeding alongside mixed feeding.

So don't let that be a deciding factor in having a third, even less so than what your manager would think.

I’m in public sector and there’s a generous mat leave policy, but nobody is ever covered when people take it, so work is redistributed. I’ve been working there almost 6 years and covered 14 colleagues on mat leaves. I would never, ever say anything but sometimes - especially when you get two or three announcing pregnancies at the same time, and they’ve already got 2-3 kids - I do just want to bang my head against a wall.

This is all a workplace problem and should never affect a woman’s choice - but as an infertile woman - and it’s always the small group of childless women doing the covering as the department is 3/4 women - I’d be lying if I didn’t dread this happening.

But yeah, bottom line is this shouldn’t stop you from doing what you think is best for your family OP!

@Viviennemary

As a matter of interest if somebody has been in a job for say five years and three of these have been on maternity leave could they say they have five years experience in that role.

I don’t know what the law is on this but I’m in a profession and there are promotions requiring a certain number of years of work post-qualification, which I feel is distinct from years of service if you see what I mean. Say the promotions require 5 years of post-qualification experience. A fair few of them have gone to women who’ve done, say, 5 years of service (because maternity doesn’t pause your employment) but have only done the professional job for 2 years. In my head that feels weird because they’ve actually only 2 years of experience in the profession.

But I guess the alternative is having to disclose mat leaves and that leaves the employer open to discrimination claims. It’s tricky.

Thanks for answering AudacityBaby. It is tricky. Because somebody who hasn't actually been at work won't have five years wotk experience if they've been away for two or three years.

@Blossomtoes Birth rate does not equal population level. The population has been rising in almost every country in the world for decades.

Your line manager and colleagues likely are going to be frustrated yes.
I agree with pp that you should act based on your priorities which I would expect to be what you want as a family but I also think that you have some unrealistic expectations of your employer who have their own priorities and obligations. They are legally obliged to provide maternity leave however once that is over, if you choose to return to work then childcare is your issue - not theirs. Most would be supportive if occasional and limited issues arise with childcare but you mention juggling childcare and work which suggests that you/colleagues are doing both longer term and the fact is you can’t do both effectively and work output suffers so it is not surprising that he may want to eye roll and not engage with this - it’s not his problem.
Your justification that you are providing the next generation of workers is a bit out there and nebulous - that isn’t why you’re having children and they are unlikely to benefit the company in any way. As for societal support I think there is a long way to go with that but I agree with others that women within a certain age range are disadvantaged in the career setting due to the significant impact of maternity leave and caring responsibilities. It isn’t really comparable to other long term leave as it is generally an issue only related to women of a certain age and in quite significant numbers. Not sure what we can do about that but certainly feel for those women who do not want children but want to progress their careers as they will be tainted with the expectation that they will not be reliably at work. I know many women who take significant precautions to ensure that having children does not impact their work and i do think if you want employers to be supportive you need to see it from their side too.

[quote cinammonbuns]@Blossomtoes Birth rate does not equal population level. The population has been rising in almost every country in the world for decades.[/quote]
I know. Please don’t be so patronising and read what I said about ageing populations.

Not their business,it's your life,do what you want with it.no doubt behind closed doors there will be comments but so what?if you want a third then get stuck in.

Sorry get stuck in not appropriate there but I mean,feel feel to enjoy.
A baby I mean.
Excuse me I'll just go and grab a shovel to keep digging with.

Well what’s the alternative? Just not have the third child you want because it’s annoying to your manager?

They will be annoyed and disappointed yes. They won’t think you’re’taking the piss’ it’s just one of those things.

You’re overthinking it. Just have baby, tell employer, then come back when ready. Certainly don’t reduce bf to try to please your boss, that’s madness and your baby’s feelings on the subject are a LOT more important than those of your boss.

@NotPersephone I "leant" in. As I mentioned in a previous post, I went on mat leave exactly 2 weeks after my enhanced pay kicked in. My manager had to bring in mat leave cover* and I felt very guilty BUT because my manager was so good, he'd hired another FTE while I was off because my company recognised that I couldn't continue doing the 60+ hour weeks I'd been doing pre-kids. Oh, and I got a pay rise while I was off on my second mat leave. And because my manager was so supportive, I came back, helped organise a restructure to create a manager's role for me, became a manager and within 2 years was advising the CEO.

Provide real support and understanding to your employees (whether they're on mat leave/ caring for a disabled partner / long term sick) and they will reward you. My company's treatment of me means I paid them back far more than the cost/inconvenience of mat leave.

If you're in private practice, then surely you recognise the huge cost that comes from taking 50-60% women as trainees and seeing only 5-10% getting made up. It's attitudes like yours that stops women from coming back (and 100% of the reason that I left the City).

I don't know why people are getting at the OP for being on AIBU? I haven't seen her complaining about the (luckily, quite isolated) negative posts. It's the other posters who are rightly pissed off.

(* I'm in law as well, and I can promise you there are plenty of people willing to provide mat leave cover in-house. But you're right, I've never heard of a law-firm getting mat leave cover in because the partners are too fucking tight to pay the cost (which is contractor rates, not FTE rates).

It’s your life and you are legally entitled to mat leave and pay. Do what you like.

As I said earlier I had three mat leaves in 5 years. My employer recruited for two of them and not the other, but workloads were reduced rather than work being covered by my colleagues. I'm public sector though which is very different to some of the environments being discussed here. I had worked in my job for over a decade before the first baby, so I think this helped and managers knew I was committed to the job.

I don't really understand a PP who says they wouldn't have wanted to 'screw over' their colleagues. What? So you wouldn't have a baby that you wanted because you're colleagues matter more to you? Is that what you mean?

I wasn't being 'wilfully obtuse' - it was just a question.

You are obviously better off out of that environment though, just talking about it seems to cause you stress, so that was clearly the right decision.

Just to add to the previous few comments - I'm in a profession in the public sector and when people go on ML, they are not covered and workloads are not reduced (we're providing a public service, which can't be reduced). It does cause a lot of strain on colleagues when people go on ML. This isn't exclusively a private sector issue.

Yeah, my workload was able to be reduced or a mat leave cover funded only because part of what I do is externally funded. It's not the norm in the public sector for this to be the case.

To be honest, from the manager and colleagues perspective it would be noted and maybe commented on. Some people will think you are entitled to it and that it's fair, others may not be so sympathetic or understanding.

Parents will be obviously have a much better understanding of the issues.

I do understand what your concern about work, but I also understand your concern about breast feeding. I'd go ahead and do it!!

In my (public sector) place of employment, a 3rd maternity leave within 5 years would slightly rankle for reasons already mentioned: no maternity leave cover, no decrease in workload, and the same very small handful of non parents always picking up the slack. But the main cause of that issue is lack of funding and poor management, neither of which is the individual's fault, and of course you can't make big personal decisions based on avoiding other people's mild irritation!

@NotPersephone i'm in PP in the City and as i said upthread i'll be taking 3 out of the last 4 years on ML. the only person who'll be covering my work when i'm not there is my boss (if he can actually bring any in) as there are only two of us in the team. As you say, the spoils of PP partnership mostly go to the men so he can deal with it when i'm not there, he gets paid enough (and would happily screw me over in a second, while taking full credit for my work).

Who knows if i'll go back there? I do know that thanks to my boss (who incidentally joined when i was on my first ML, i didn't choose to work with him and my firm didn't take my opinion into account) my partnership prospects there are non-existent, but at my level of seniority (16PQE) and my specialism, i'll not be stuck for another job.