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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Naked children in courtyard cafés

290 replies

bibblybop · 18/07/2021 17:28

Today DH and I took DS to a local beauty spot. Like a National Trust but not actually NT if you get me? Beautiful gardens, old mansion, gorgeous.

We were having a bite to eat in the courtyard cafe near a family with several young children running around. Fine. Except the youngest little girl (roughly 3yo) was running around completely naked.

I'm not a prude, and I'm very sympathetic to parents as I know from experience that kids can be unruly/unreasonable and sometimes decorum has to come second to a child's need (i'm thinking public wees in an emergency kind of scenarios here...)

But I feel like allowing your child to run around completely naked in an outdoor café is a bit much? People are there trying to enjoy their lunch while a little girl is romping around everyone's tables with no clothes on... I know it's hot but it's a cafe FGS

I'd love to know people's thoughts on this because I feel like I'm missing something 🙈😂 Surely they can't think that's acceptable? Or is it?!

OP posts:
blobblob · 19/07/2021 09:22

Useful and very relevant post. And sorry you were a victim. It is very real and you're right it's stupid to risk that for your child when they have no choice in the matter.

alongwiththesunshine · 19/07/2021 09:30

I sent my mum this thread and she told me I was the same when I was going; apparently she would let me run naked around shopping centres because I'd run away when she was trying clothes on me apparently.

And it makes me feel really fucking icky tbh that I was allowed to,

alongwiththesunshine · 19/07/2021 09:31

younger not going

Shoxfordian · 19/07/2021 09:35

I agree with you op
It’s not appropriate in a cafe at all

DottyHarmer · 19/07/2021 09:36

The people saying it’s ok…. Would it be ok if it had been a 5-year-old, or a 9-year-old? Or several naked children?

Nonmaquillee · 19/07/2021 09:42

It's totally inappropriate and I would have felt deeply uncomfortable on behalf of the child.

onlyconnect · 19/07/2021 09:42

Beigebrownblue I have in fact done safeguarding training and it is part of my work to help safeguard young people.
I am of the opinion that we currently have got it wrong in terms of approach. Yes, people, including me, spend much effort to keep children safe. Overall, I'm not sure how well we do. Not because individuals don't try their best but because we are not tackling it in a way that will actually make a difference.

CounsellorTroi · 19/07/2021 10:06

@Twistiesandshout

I doubt many are drinking tea in the heat today, and it would bother me regardless if a child got burned (although I don't drink hot drinks so wouldn't be mine :) )
There would have been plenty. Tea can cool you down in hot weather as can up in loose cotton clothing as opposed to stripping down to your undies.

People have been talking about camera phones but these places may also be covered by CCTV. There have been instances of CCTV footage being unlawfully shared by those responsible for monitoring it.

comebacksunshines · 19/07/2021 10:18

@DottyHarmer

The people saying it’s ok…. Would it be ok if it had been a 5-year-old, or a 9-year-old? Or several naked children?
Can’t say it particularly bothers me, there’s nothing remotely sexual about a child’s body, so there’s no need to hide it. If they are comfortable, then why not. Teach kids about stranger danger etc, but I honestly think there is minimal risk for a kid sat in a cafe with their parent(s).
DottyHarmer · 19/07/2021 10:22

It’s not any sexual aspect, it’s the bare bums sliding across seats….

comebacksunshines · 19/07/2021 10:33

Wearing trousers, skirts etc. Even as an adult isn’t a guarantee that the seat is clean. Some people and children are filthy. I could have been sat in a dirty train seat before I sat down in the cafe.
I almost think hiding children’s bodies away, is like saying there’s something too hide, when clearly there isn’t.

nevernotstruggling · 19/07/2021 10:40

Urgh I never let the dds do this when they were little.

DottyHarmer · 19/07/2021 10:45

@comebacksunshines - are you happy with topless men in a cafe or shop? Nothing sexual about a very hirsute back or a bulbous belly - but I’m still not keen to be in close proximity.

LittleGwyneth · 19/07/2021 11:25

It's very strange that we would never tell a woman or teenage girl that she shouldn't dress a certain way to avoid being a victim of a sex crime, but apparently we think it's okay to suggest children can't play naked to avoid the same thing.

I agree that a cafe is a bit odd because it's not really the place for running and playing. But I find it so sad that children wouldn't be allowed to play freely in a park or on a beach because of a fear or something which is unlikely to happen. Pedophiles are like sharks, we worry a disproportionate amount about something happening. When it does, it's horrific, but is it really worth never going in the sea to avoid being bitten?

Being nude at the beach is very normal in other European countries and I don't think those children are in any great danger. I do agree about the sunburn though.

bringincrazyback · 19/07/2021 11:44

Pedophiles are like sharks, we worry a disproportionate amount about something happening. When it does, it's horrific, but is it really worth never going in the sea to avoid being bitten?

Well, personally where paedos are concerned, I'd have to answer yes to that... lots of things only happen very rarely but that doesn't mean we don't need to guard against the possibility.

I don't have DC, but if I did I wouldn't let them be naked in public.

Nietzschethehiker · 19/07/2021 11:47

It's not an interpretation its a trained clarification. Sex offenders have committed an offence. Paedophile are attracted to children but may not have actually committed an offence. Yet. It doesn't mean they won't. I include child sexual abuse images online in that.

I strongly advise you do not , as your tone suggests try to start a row about me being an apologist. If you had any concept of my previous professions and experiences you would back down now. This is not my opinion. Nor is this pulled from thin air. I have been specifically trained. I have sat in court over and over again in cases. I have sat in therapy sessions with both victims and perpetrators. Do not.

I consider Paedophiles who have not been convicted more dangerous because they aren't on anyone's radar. They absolutely exist. If you could hear some of the things I have you would understand. The point I was making is that you cannot afford the naivete to think this can be predicted. It cannot.

You can bosom hoik at my post all you like. I absolutely assure you if you had heard and seen the victims that I have worked with, and the perpetrators you would understand the complexity.

You are itching to try to prove I am in some way undermining any form of child sexual abuse. You have very very much picked the wrong poster. I don't consider it a highlight of my career to have listened to the in depth thought process of both perpetrators and victims but it has unfortunately been a feature of my career for a variety of reasons. If you had heard what I had you would understand my anger at the implied challenge. Be a keyboard warrior all you like but not with me. If you have experienced it yourself I am truly sorry for your experience but you do not get to try to invalidate what is a very very important distinction.

If "you know" from a an actual trained perspective you would not be playing silly buggers to get a rise out of this. I'm going to exempt myself now because I have very little time for people who play semantics to make themselves feel more important when those wordings provide a structure to identify risk management.

Honestly I have no time or interest to play with keyboard warriors beyond this post who get a kick out of finding offence with someone who has spent 23 years trying to protect vulnerable service users. Go play with someone else.

Bloodypunkrockers · 19/07/2021 12:10

@Greenmarmalade

I think it’s fine. I would have shared in their joy.
GrinGrin
WoolieLiberal · 19/07/2021 12:34

No, I never did let DD’s run around naked in public. Not because there was anything wrong with it but because sadly there might be weirdos out there who had an unhealthy interest in naked kids.

If they wanted to strip off I always made sure they had a nappy on at the very least (and plenty of sun cream!)

WoolieLiberal · 19/07/2021 12:34

*or pants/shorts when they were a little older! Lol!

Neondisco · 19/07/2021 12:43

I'd notice it but it wouldn't bother me. I don't really get why it's rude if I'm honest. I'm not sure it's any more unhygienic than toddlers running around in general.

leonpride · 19/07/2021 12:49

@LittleGwyneth

It's very strange that we would never tell a woman or teenage girl that she shouldn't dress a certain way to avoid being a victim of a sex crime, but apparently we think it's okay to suggest children can't play naked to avoid the same thing.

I agree that a cafe is a bit odd because it's not really the place for running and playing. But I find it so sad that children wouldn't be allowed to play freely in a park or on a beach because of a fear or something which is unlikely to happen. Pedophiles are like sharks, we worry a disproportionate amount about something happening. When it does, it's horrific, but is it really worth never going in the sea to avoid being bitten?

Being nude at the beach is very normal in other European countries and I don't think those children are in any great danger. I do agree about the sunburn though.

They can play freely in just underwear, they don't need to be naked. As PP said, you can't spot a paedo by looks alone. They may not even be a sex offender, just someone aroused by your 3 year old

As a parent, I'm putting something on my child. That's not victim blaming -_-

postitgirl · 19/07/2021 13:40

I agree with you OP there's something about her being in cafe. Plus even the safety risks if she is running around and there are hot drinks - could cause a nasty accident? I don't know why but I just woulndt want a load of strangers looking at her naked. It doesnt sit right with me. Plus its often cooler to have a light dress on, than to be naked - spoken from experience lol

LittleGwyneth · 19/07/2021 16:31

@leonpride Grim as it is to write this, if you happened to be in the same cafe as a pedophile I don't think wearing pants would be that much of a help honestly.

paddlingon · 19/07/2021 16:41

I am less convinced that is true.
There is often a sexual thrill associated with boundaries being broken.
I would think it could well have a transgressive thrill being able to view dc's genitalia in public without having to have created the situation.

Given the numbers people who view of indecent images of children on online the chances of them being in any public situation with you is quite high.

leonpride · 19/07/2021 16:49

[quote LittleGwyneth]@leonpride Grim as it is to write this, if you happened to be in the same cafe as a pedophile I don't think wearing pants would be that much of a help honestly.[/quote]
I mean, peadophiles may be aroused by kids in summer dresses etc. Sure but I'm not making it more glorious for them by letting my child run nude

A naked child in a cafe is a bit of a spectacle. I just think it's drawing attention when as a parent, sometimes you just have to say "no".

I'm not going to ban swimsuits because a predator might be watching, because my child misses out on a valuable experience (swimming for example). But full frontal is too far, I don't know

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