Naked children in courtyard cafés

[bibblybop]

Today DH and I took DS to a local beauty spot. Like a National Trust but not actually NT if you get me? Beautiful gardens, old mansion, gorgeous.

We were having a bite to eat in the courtyard cafe near a family with several young children running around. Fine. Except the youngest little girl (roughly 3yo) was running around completely naked.

I'm not a prude, and I'm very sympathetic to parents as I know from experience that kids can be unruly/unreasonable and sometimes decorum has to come second to a child's need (i'm thinking public wees in an emergency kind of scenarios here...)

But I feel like allowing your child to run around completely naked in an outdoor café is a bit much? People are there trying to enjoy their lunch while a little girl is romping around everyone's tables with no clothes on... I know it's hot but it's a cafe FGS

I'd love to know people's thoughts on this because I feel like I'm missing something 🙈😂 Surely they can't think that's acceptable? Or is it?!

I don't really see what's off putting about a naked toddler. I mean is the sight / brief glimpse of a bare toddler bum so disgusting it pits you off your lunch? Or is it the idea of them sitting naked on a chair someone else will habe to sit on?

@SleepingStandingUp

I don't really see what's off putting about a naked toddler. I mean is the sight / brief glimpse of a bare toddler bum so disgusting it pits you off your lunch? Or is it the idea of them sitting naked on a chair someone else will habe to sit on?

But it's not just a bare toddler bum? She was climbing all over the furniture. I'll leave it to your imagination.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with toddlers being naked. I have a toddler. I just think there's a time and place for it and a café isn't one of them. It puts people off their food, makes people uncomfortable, it's unhygienic and as many people have pointed out (and as was my first thought when it happened) you never know who is watching.

Most adverts for nappies, for as long as can remember, seem to show plenty of footage of babies bottoms.
Renaissance art depicts a lot of unclothed cherubic children.
All totally innocent.
Surely if the sight of a child's bottom was going to send a paedophile into a frenzy, then they should be starting with Pampers adverts.

@comebacksunshines

Most adverts for nappies, for as long as can remember, seem to show plenty of footage of babies bottoms. Renaissance art depicts a lot of unclothed cherubic children. All totally innocent. Surely if the sight of a child's bottom was going to send a paedophile into a frenzy, then they should be starting with Pampers adverts.

Why do people all have an image of a cherubim little girl padding around with her innocent little bottom out?

The reality was a little girl racing around the courtyard and clambering over furniture and the modern art display with all out for everyone to see. Not just a little bum bobbing around in the periphery.

The reality was a little girl racing around the courtyard and clambering over furniture and the modern art display with all out for everyone to see. Not just a little bum bobbing around in the periphery.
Because your title and your OP indicated that the main issue was her lack of clothes, not her behaviour.

Are naked dogs OK?

I'm surprised so many people think this is OK...
Three might technically be considered a toddler but it's way too old for that carry on. I wouldn't be uncomfortable but I definitely wouldn't think a random todder's bare ass on a hot day a welcome addition to my lunch. It's really not cute and the parents were dicks.

@Susannahmoody- The house ads for empty bits in the New England Yellow Pages used to say, “No matter your business, it pays to advertise.” I’ find Speedos inappropriate except at a competition pool but I’m a prudish Puritan descended American lesbian .

@comebacksunshines

The reality was a little girl racing around the courtyard and clambering over furniture and the modern art display with all out for everyone to see. Not just a little bum bobbing around in the periphery. Because your title and your OP indicated that the main issue was her lack of clothes, not her behaviour.

I would argue that the OP mentioned the issue of running around naked several times, not just the nudity 🤷🏻

Not appropriate.

I'd also worry about toilet accidents - my kids seem to need the loo when they get naked, like it's a habit or something.

No one wants to see little Persephone have a plop next to their panna cotta

Well little kid running around naked is different to little naked kid of dubious cleanliness clambering all over the furniture.

So uncomfortable because how well did anyone wipe the tushy now sitting on the cushy i get. Uncomfortable because you can see bare 3 yo tushy i don't

I would argue that the OP mentioned the issue of running around naked several times, not just the nudity
However, the main issue appears to be her nudity. I am commenting on that.

@comebacksunshines

I would argue that the OP mentioned the issue of running around naked several times, not just the nudity However, the main issue appears to be her nudity. I am commenting on that.

I mean...I wrote the post? The two issues are equal because while I think nudity in a courtyard café is a bit much, it was the running around naked in front of everyone eating their lunch which was what I thought was inappropriate.

She's not just sat at her table with her family (which does flag up issues of hygiene amongst other things) but she's in other people's faces completely naked and causing a general nuisance. If her behaviour had been under control then it's fair to argue the nudity would probably have gone unnoticed. Then I could agree with the posters who have said 'don't like it, don't look' but in this case you could see everything wherever you looked.

What I meant when I said 'why do people have this image of a cherubim little girl...' etc was not really calling into question the 'main issue' of the OP but rather the fact that some posters are keen to idealise the situation and see it as an innocent little child minding her own business and being adorably naked regardless of the detail of the OP.

Oh yuck. For me it's not the nudity per se but the dubiously wiped arse cheeks et al on various furniture/surfaces.

My children liked to be naked and I didn't mind at home if it was incidental (i e dash from bathroom to bedroom) but naked practising gymnastics on the furniture, a firm NO. We actually had a "no bare bums on the sofa rule". I was clear that their bodies were nothing to be ashamed of but no one wants to see wee holes and poo holes in a room where they might be having a meal.

@SleepingStandingUp

Well little kid running around naked is different to little naked kid of dubious cleanliness clambering all over the furniture.

So uncomfortable because how well did anyone wipe the tushy now sitting on the cushy i get. Uncomfortable because you can see bare 3 yo tushy i don't

It's not about being uncomfortable because I can see a child's bare bum. I have a toddler and therefore have seen my fair share of bare baby bum, that doesn't phase me. But I wouldn't like to see my son pegging it around our table tackle out, climbing over the furniture and bending over in front of me while I'm eating my lunch. And I wouldn't blame anyone else for feeling the same either.

But it's not just a bare toddler bum? She was climbing all over the furniture. I'll leave it to your imagination.

clambering over furniture and the modern art display with all out for everyone to see. Not just a little bum bobbing around in the periphery.

I’m not sure what you see that I don’t but there’s not much other than what looks like one big bum and one small bum joined together. I have a 4 year old knicker refuser and there’s not much to see really.

The idea that it’s so disgusting it might put you off your food is odd to me. If it was a stinky nappy or potty etc I’d agree but toddler bits and bobs are no different than any ther part of the body.,.

The running around and climbing on sculptures is different, whether clothed or not.

@MrsKoala

But it's not just a bare toddler bum? She was climbing all over the furniture. I'll leave it to your imagination.

clambering over furniture and the modern art display with all out for everyone to see. Not just a little bum bobbing around in the periphery.

I’m not sure what you see that I don’t but there’s not much other than what looks like one big bum and one small bum joined together. I have a 4 year old knicker refuser and there’s not much to see really.

The idea that it’s so disgusting it might put you off your food is odd to me. If it was a stinky nappy or potty etc I’d agree but toddler bits and bobs are no different than any ther part of the body.,.

The running around and climbing on sculptures is different, whether clothed or not.

Yes I suppose it is odd that someone's flailing genitalia might put me off my food.

Yes I suppose it is odd that someone's flailing genitalia might put me off my food. You said the naked one was a 3 yr old girl. 3 year old girls dont have flailing genitalia.

But I wouldn't like to see my son pegging it around our table tackle out, climbing over the furniture and bending over in front of me while I'm eating my lunch*. Kids shouldn't be running around where people are moving hot beverages for their own sake. They shouldn't have shoes or naked bums on the seats. They shouldn't be climbing over peoples tables and the art regardless of their clothes. They shouldn't be bending over showing their bums to randomers. But beyond bad behaviour, which would be bad on clothes too, i can't get upset about the lack of clothes

I grew up in a 'clothes are optional' kind of a family, but - and here's the big BUT - it stops being a thing when other people don't like it.

I'll happily stroll around in my knickers with my mum, sister, niece and nephew and vice versa, but my OH is a little more 'clothes on', so we don't do it in front of him (and I certainly wouldn't go au natural in front of his family).

Other people have boundaries they are allowed to enforce.

I would say that we are a fairly naked household but in England especially tend to keep them covered up as it's not really the thing here!

Wouldn't bother be though I think I'd just think it was funny!

@SleepingStandingUp

Yes I suppose it is odd that someone's flailing genitalia might put me off my food. You said the naked one was a 3 yr old girl. 3 year old girls dont have flailing genitalia.

But I wouldn't like to see my son pegging it around our table tackle out, climbing over the furniture and bending over in front of me while I'm eating my lunch*. Kids shouldn't be running around where people are moving hot beverages for their own sake. They shouldn't have shoes or naked bums on the seats. They shouldn't be climbing over peoples tables and the art regardless of their clothes. They shouldn't be bending over showing their bums to randomers. But beyond bad behaviour, which would be bad on clothes too, i can't get upset about the lack of clothes

They do if they're doing gymnastics, but you're missing the point...

I agree with you but you've said kids shouldn't show their bums to strangers which surely is a direct consequence of a lack of clothes? So surely the lack of clothes is a problem here?

I wouldn't like to see my son pegging it around our table tackle out, climbing over the furniture and bending over in front of me while I'm eating my lunch

As you were

Fwiw I wouldn't let my child do this in a cafe because it's unsafe (re drinks/sharp objects, table edges, going where I can't see them etc) and because children haring around too close to other people is a bloody nuisance. I think of it like dogs - I bloody hate them so don't want them running past me. Others may feel the same way about children (or at least my children 😁) so I urge them to give others space.

Having said that I think people are totally mad being obsessed with this paedo angle (especially when the REAL risk of harm in the vast majority of cases is so much more insidious, so potentially harmful and far closer to home). Yes they may be there. Yes they may look, be aroused, they may even take a picture and use that picture for gratification. Revolting, revolting behaviour. But the child in question will not (if properly supervised) have come to any harm; which surely is the point? The idea that it is worth actually inhibiting your actual child to prevent the theoretical gratification of a theoretical stranger paedophile seems a bit crazy to me. I mean to what extent does this precaution extend, given paedophiles are also "known" to hang around play areas to serve at children who are fully clothed? Or to get jobs in sports clubs/churches/schools/nurseries in order to view/gain access to children? I'd say enrolling your child in cubs/the local football team is far more risky to their actual safety than letting them be naked in public. Not to mention the vast majority of child abuse is perpetrated within the family, usually by an unrelated male within the home - so any of you who have introduced a step father into your children's lives are taking a far greater risk with their safety than someone letting their 3yo be nude in public. Honestly the assesment of risk just seems utterly weird to me. Everyone frothing about what some imaginary stranger paedo might be thinking while totally oblivious to what nice Uncle Ted who's so good with children is actually doing.

There are creeps who get off on breastfeeding. Doesn't mean I'm exposing my child to abuse by bf her in public. We can't all live our lives based on what someone somewhere may be thinking.

Also as an aside, the OP can't KNOW she was 3yo. She's guessing. So anyone who qualifies this with "a younger child yes, but 3 is too old" needs to remember that. My neice is 8 but in 10yo clothes because she's incredibly tall like her father.

And another thing re hygiene: as any parent of toddlers knows, if it's on their bum/bits it's on their hands as well 😆 ok you can hand wash regularly but it's the work of a moment for any child not in nappies to have a good rummage. It's the relentless nose picking that drives me up the wall and makes me cringe. So unless we're going to be worried about toddlers touching anything at all I think the hygiene issue is a red herring.

Yes I suppose it is odd that someone's flailing genitalia might put me off my food.
You're starting to sound quite strange now.