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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Naked children in courtyard cafés

290 replies

bibblybop · 18/07/2021 17:28

Today DH and I took DS to a local beauty spot. Like a National Trust but not actually NT if you get me? Beautiful gardens, old mansion, gorgeous.

We were having a bite to eat in the courtyard cafe near a family with several young children running around. Fine. Except the youngest little girl (roughly 3yo) was running around completely naked.

I'm not a prude, and I'm very sympathetic to parents as I know from experience that kids can be unruly/unreasonable and sometimes decorum has to come second to a child's need (i'm thinking public wees in an emergency kind of scenarios here...)

But I feel like allowing your child to run around completely naked in an outdoor café is a bit much? People are there trying to enjoy their lunch while a little girl is romping around everyone's tables with no clothes on... I know it's hot but it's a cafe FGS

I'd love to know people's thoughts on this because I feel like I'm missing something 🙈😂 Surely they can't think that's acceptable? Or is it?!

OP posts:
NigellaSeed · 18/07/2021 21:04

No way as PP said it's my job to protect DS from sickos! Are the people who say it's acceptable unfamiliar with this concept?

Greenmarmalade · 18/07/2021 21:11

I think it’s fine. I would have shared in their joy.

cookiecreampie · 18/07/2021 21:22

No it's not acceptable. You never know who is around and it might be uncomfortable for people who don't know where to look and who don't want to be accused of anything.

Booboosweet · 18/07/2021 21:33

If it was a smaller baby I would excuse the nakedness but three is far too old to be naked in public. I also wouldn't fancy eating while a naked person of any age was running around.

Justgettingbye · 18/07/2021 21:36

Unacceptable

  1. Most important because of the creeps/perverts
  2. A side note - the running is just plain dangerous scalds etc
  3. It's unhygienic toddlers don't know where their hands are most of the time and my boy is always fiddling down there so at least put a layer in between
  4. People are trying to eat
  5. I would pick that battle with them that clothes are to be worn in public and let them scream if they don't like it
MorriseysGladioli · 18/07/2021 21:39

I wouldn't like it, for a variety of reasons.

Seesawmummadaw · 18/07/2021 21:42

@Bimblybomeyelash

I’d have more of a problem with the running around than I would with the nakedness.
Same
BiBabbles · 18/07/2021 21:43

I wouldn't think it acceptable with the concerns of sunburn and being around hot food and drinks naked while running around. If it was a naked small child sitting in the shade not running around I wouldn't be as fussed, though it would be better if they sat on on towel that could partially cover them (I'm pretty sure I've read writings by nudists/naturalists on the 'politeness' and comfort reasons of not sitting bare on such things).

I'm not British-born, but I do come from the land of 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' and do worry about the staff having to get around it with how the running around is described -- and with the chemicals being used to clean, I'm not sure I'd want those on delicate skin.

Teaching children that have something to fear does them harm. I'm not suggesting that anyone says explicitly to children when they tell them to keep their clothes on that there is something to be frightened of, but the message is there.

Multiple parks near me have big signs on the importance of covering up in the children's areas, with wide gazebos that have images of shirts and hats and suck etched into the wooden posts. They were put up with funds raised by someone locally who has since died from skin cancer as many of our local parks didn't have much shade available and each one has a sign discussing this and the risk factors of skin cancer.

Do you think those cause our children harm? I would think they might help parents of budding nudists to have that very visual support of 'this is a space for clothes'.

Just10moreminutesplease · 18/07/2021 21:48

I would find it weird and wouldn’t let my child do it (sunburn and potential perverts would put me off!), but I’m struggling to see why you were so bothered.

You say that you didn’t know where to look but surely there’s nothing wrong with happening to see a naked child? It’s not as if you were going to stare inappropriately, is it?

LifesNotEnidBlyton · 18/07/2021 21:52

No way. All it takes is a paedophile or someone who would share images if the price was right with a discreet smartphone. You dont know the people around you. Most people aren't paedophiles obviously, but you don't know who is, and with small children you just don't cross your fingers and let them streak in front of men and women you dont know.

mswales · 18/07/2021 22:04

I really don't get all the people saying it's okay on a beach but not in a cafe then list safety as one of the reasons. If kids can be photographed naked in a cafe then they can be photographed on the beach too right?

I have a three year old who loves taking his clothes off, mostly at home or friends' houses but sometimes it's happened at music festivals. Never at a cafe! I would definitely try to get clothes back on him but if he adamantly refused I wouldn't want to turn it into a massive fight and wouldn't want go home over it. I don't like making a huge thing of it because I want to preserve his innocence about nakedness as long as possible. We have such a strong culture of body shame and sex shame in our society. If I turned it into a big thing insisting he HAS to cover himself up because people do NOT want to see him naked and bodies MUST be kept private would be the beginnings of instilling that culture in him which I find really sad.

mswales · 18/07/2021 22:05

I would probably leave the cafe in that scenario though to be fair!

FrownedUpon · 18/07/2021 22:15

It’s inappropriate, but sadly doesn’t surprise me that some parents think it’s fine.

Original poster
bibblybop · 18/07/2021 22:15

@Just10moreminutesplease

I would find it weird and wouldn’t let my child do it (sunburn and potential perverts would put me off!), but I’m struggling to see why you were so bothered.

You say that you didn’t know where to look but surely there’s nothing wrong with happening to see a naked child? It’s not as if you were going to stare inappropriately, is it?

There's nothing 'wrong' with it, although I don't want to see anyone naked when I'm eating, adult or child.

But the point with not knowing where to look was that I always ended up looking at her because she's running around making everyone jippy (because it's unsafe) and then you feel uncomfortable for having looked lest it look like you were looking.

You know? 😂

OP posts:
bloodyhell19 · 18/07/2021 22:26

@MapGirlExtraordinaire

I'd find it cute tbh. My two have been naked in public many times, they want to and I can't think of a good reason to say no. If it bothers someone else then that's their problem.

Noise and running so close as to cause people aggravation I would put a stop to, but a 3 yr old's little naked bum? Nah, fine in my book.

Safeguarding?! Especially with camera phones everywhere. Christ alive.

OP it's inappropriate. Safeguarding, sunburn.... The fact that young children don't really have the capacity to consent to being naked in public in front of strangers...creates a whole other issue about appropriate boundaries around nudity and strangers.

Some parents are fucking dim.

Pallisers · 18/07/2021 23:10

I'm trying to imagine why I would find a naked child "cute" or especially joyful? How does them being naked add to the usual cuteness or joy of a child?

CorianderBee · 18/07/2021 23:36

Yeah genitals and bums aren't what I want to see when trying to relax and enjoy my lunch. A pair of knickers would've solved the issue.

stellaisabella · 18/07/2021 23:49

@pollylocketpickedapocket you realise that not all children are toilet trained by 3?? How bloody judgemental

PollyPepper · 19/07/2021 01:05

@Wbeezer

This happened to us at a cafe when DS was three, there was an ornamental pond covered in duckweed outside and DS ran straight into it not realising it was water underneath, he came up covered in pond weed and we had to strip him off. Luckily it was the café at the Findhorn Community and we'd coincidentally turned up on a day when they were having a one day open air "Festival of Manhood" (this was about 20 years ago). So a bunch of hippy types celebrating manhood did not bat an eyelid at a small boy running about in the nude (DS loved it). But a NT property?, er no.
Am I high?
SuperCaliFragalistic · 19/07/2021 08:06

If I turned it into a big thing insisting he HAS to cover himself up because people do NOT want to see him naked and bodies MUST be kept private would be the beginnings of instilling that culture in him which I find really sad.

It may be sad but its true. In some ways the earlier they understand, the better.

SuperCaliFragalistic · 19/07/2021 08:08

@Greenmarmalade

I think it’s fine. I would have shared in their joy.
By stripping off and running around too? Because as an adult you can make an informed decision about it, can't you?
Wbeezer · 19/07/2021 08:49

@Pollypepper not high, it really happened, it may have been called a celebration of manhood, it was a long time ago but it was very gentle being at an alternative community, more like a village fete than anything else. That day was one of those random weird days that end up being very memorable.
Celebrating manhood seemed to involve barbecuing meat, playing guitars, a storytelling tent, blowing giant bubbles....

drpet49 · 19/07/2021 08:54

Not inappropriate especially where people are eating.

whatinthenameofhen · 19/07/2021 08:57

Unacceptable. I think it makes others feel awkward. The beach is fine but a cafe etc no.

pantsville · 19/07/2021 08:57

As someone who’s been the victim of a paedophile, it’s actually bordering on offensive to see people always acting as if they don’t exist, or brushing off the idea of people getting off over children. I can’t get my head round people who don’t feel bloody sick at the thought of someone watching and enjoying your naked child running around. And of course paedophiles visit fucking cafes, do you honestly think during the summer they’re permanently stationed on a beach with a pair of binoculars? A lot of them are just otherwise normal adults going about their lives. They don’t tend to announce themselves, you wouldn’t have any idea someones a nonce 99% of the time. And how ridiculous to suggest a child in shorts is just the same as a naked child to them. I take it the person who said that walks round eateries with a bare arse and genitals on hot days too, since it’s just the same as wearing shorts Hmm