To think most of MN don’t know what having no money means

[icecolddrinks]

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

Yep. The post the other day about someone never having much money rubbed me up the wrong way when people were suggesting they do some training to get a better job. If only we could all do that!

I've been in embarrassing situations before. I've had to pretend to be poorly when a friend suggests we have takeaway when I go round because I literally don't have a fiver for a kebab. I've rang in sick to work before because I didn't have the money for petrol to get in. I've lived on pot noodles because I had no money for anything better.

The reason I didn't tell anyone how skint I was was because it never helped. If I confided in people they wouldn't offer anything other than advice they had based on what they considered being skint. "Dip into your savings" even though I had none. "Ask your boss for a pay rise" when I worked in a care home who paid everyone minimum wage and didn't do pay rises. "Get a loan out" even though I had the lowest credit score known to man!

I think some people consider skint as only having a few hundred left. I've had 2 week to get through on a fiver before. I'm still skint a lot, just a bit less than before. And people still offer me their crap advice. "Have you thought about getting a better job?" My skills are minimum wage level.

There was a thread on here about savings before. One poster commented that "surely everyone has some savings to fall back on". It was the most shockingly of touch commented I've read on here.

I agree to a certain extent op. MN is massively skewed by MC people with high salaries (I have a high salary myself now).

We were skint when we were younger but we didn't have DS and we could get food from our parents in the last 2/3 days before payday and in those days M&S sold food off to staff dirt cheap (I had a part time job there) which meant we often ate well - although strange concoctions of whatever hadn't sold that day.

I remember how it was so much harder and there was less choice - whereas now yes I throw money at problems and that's what you see on MN.

I remember once my dad had given us £20 to go to the cinema as we'd done him a favour. We went over the Dartford tunnel got a Burger King and paid for the cinema tickets but then only had 97p left and we needed a pound for the return journey. We had no money in our account so cooks withdraw any cash and so we searched the car and car park for pennies and then not finding any had to drive the long way round. Today it would be such a non issue but I do remember that and how long we spent trying to find 3p.

And for a pp that mentioned the civil service not knowing what it's like. Yes that's very true. My Department is completely middle class and I'm trying to rectify that with initiatives to encourage young people from deprived areas to apply and support them to do so, but it is hard going and frustrating. Although I've never been treated badly for being different, I am a bit of a curiosity sometimes which is annoying. One colleague said 'Oh Anne - tell x about the year 6 boys you went to school with and how they're all in prison'. Its like I 'm some weird species that they've only ever met one off!

In my job experience it can mean that someone has reached their ‘safety net’
Seen people not be able to afford to pay their loan/credit card but have £1000 in the bank. When asked why they couldn’t use that their reply would be that’s my emergency fund, no I can’t have it go lower than this.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I know the crumbs of poverty are little known in some quarters but it’s not the Gorbals in 1973

I’m a social worker in Glasgow and believe me when I say there are folk living in absolute poverty in some parts of the city.

I know. I was having a bit of sport with that poster. Sorry.

@NailsNeedDoing it’s not really all that difficult. If someone posts in AIBU about not having enough money to buy a red outfit I don’t think that’s unreasonable, so say so. I tend to assume the poster might know the existence of Primark.

+You had no money because you had an almost unheard of administrative wait of 8 months. You weren't receiving anything*

Almost unheard of?!! That was very common with the old tax credits system, especially when the third party company that was brought in began checking everyone’s claims and began arbitrarily stopping peoples claims for minor discrepancies with little room for redress. It was one of the reasons the old system was changed.

Nowadays you have ‘benefit sanctions’ and a ridiculous scheme of loaning money to claimants for a five week wait, meaning they are in permanent debt.

And as I said, when the tax credits did finally come through, they did not cover rent, council tax, bills, food, school costs in full. I had to make many other changes, huge life altering ones to crawl out of that hole. My situation is nowhere near unheard of and similar to millions across the country. From what I understand, benefits get stopped if you earn too much one month, don’t have access to a computer and don’t turn up for certain appointments. Add to that the insane cost of renting, long waiting lists for council property and the costs of dependents that may have come about years before death / redundancy / poor health etc were factored in and some people are screwed.

I agree, on mumsnet there always seems to be a solution thrown in to the comment, i am skint and that solution usually involves money.
And not everyone who is skint has been careless with money, is on benefits or is lying and scamming. Nor do all poor people live in grim b&bs with no cooking facilities. I work 40 hours a week in a nursery, looking after and caring for other peoples children but even working full time, and with no debt to pay off, i still rely on tax credits and can barely meet my bills let alone buy luxuries. I have never had a holiday. Please dont say find another job or open up your prospects as there are very few jobs in the area i live and i cant afford the expense of moving to another area nor should my kids have too. Maybe if people were paid a decent wage they wouldn't be skint.

@icecolddrinks

I think *@LemonRoses* must be referring to another thread none of us have seen … surely!?

I know the crumbs of poverty are little known in some quarters but it’s not the Gorbals in 1973

No. She is saying children are still living in appalling poverty. Truly appalling poverty and no, lots of people don’t see that.

I’m not sure that the level of poverty and polarisation of wealth is much to laugh about, personally. I’m very fortunate, but others are not. The idea of using absolute poverty as a source of humour is appalling. No it’s not 1973 and yet across the U.K. poverty is increasingly because of government policy.

The Child Poverty Act pushed through by Blair aimed to virtually eradicate that degree of poverty, even that had a target of less than 5% living in abject poverty. That is a too high target for a civilised society.

In 2016, the Resolution Foundation projected that by 2020, relative child poverty would by 50%. The increase in relative poverty has undone almost all of the work done reducing poverty from 1999-2010. And the increase in absolute poverty (also up from 17.6 per cent in 2010/11) will mean that, over a decade, the income of families at the bottom has actually gone down – something without precedent in modern times.

The teacher expectations was in response to someone pointing out a card was too expensive for some families. They are right.

@icecolddrinks

I must admit I’ve found that.

No one has to spend money but the assumption that a poster saying I’m skint = scamming troll has been harmful here I think.

I completely agree, and it's awful that prolific scamming (which MN doesn't do enough to crack down on) has made it so.

I don't think it's impossible to differentiate the scammers from those who really are hard up. Usually the scammers will turn down any suggestion which may help (except of course if someone PMs them offering to credit their PayPal account...) but those who actually need help tend to take the information offered by posters - many of whom are excellent at supporting those in need - and use it.

What, so you actually think poor children all live in grim B and Bs? what the hell? I’m laughing because it’s so random!

The thread you're referring to the person was saying they can't afford to order a brand new costume , which in all honesty you don't have to do.

So poor children whose parents don’t have the money to buy teacher plastic shite or expensive rubbish all live in b and bs?

You must be expressing yourself very poorly. Either that or I need more coffee

I don't mean to sound dismissive. My point is you could have the exact same bank balance as someone else, but one will be judged harsher and find it more humiliating.

Not only dismissive, but ranking poverty and who has it worse based on your marital status or whether you have children really shows a misunderstanding of real life.

Admitting you need help is hard whether you have children or a husband or not.

YANBU

To have no money for the gas meter to be counting your pennies to buy bread and milk it’s fucking miserable

Those who say they could live without money really do not know how miserable it can be it occupies your mind constantly abs drags you down

Thankfully have not had to live like that for years and never with ds (though at times it’s been very difficult financially not that bad)

You can't eat pride though, can you?

Eh? Well I certainly didn’t swallow mine down and let anyone know. I’m glad I did go hungry. Even reading these posts demonstrates how many people would have just judged me for making choices. Plus losing that two stone didn’t do me any harm.

Scammers tend to start a thread about having no money.

The ones I’m thinking of tend to be talking about something else and then having no money comes up in context.

So things like ‘just take a taxi to your mums’ or whatever.

I know what you mean. No money means no money. Not access to an overdraft or just tight. I've been there too. Too poor to afford public transport to get to work. A loaf of bread, carton of eggs and litre of milk to eat for a week (cost at a cheap place was around $3). In my case it wasn't choices. It was illness and only being able to work 3weeks out of 4 and needing to take unpaid leave. Didn't qualify for benefits but bills don't get reduced. Took me years to get out of it once my health improved. To this day I still panic getting mail. So much so I only empty the mail box every couple of months. My bills come electronically, but I still can't open the letter box incase there is something there I can't pay. These days I can pay it but the fear is still there.

A lot of people talk a lot of crap generally. Hardly anyone listens.

There was a woman on here the other day saying she never had money left over. She earned a low wage, had no debt, didn't drink or smoke, rarely went out or bought clothes. Posters lived up to tell her to quit botox which cost her a grand total of £100 a year. Ridiculous. As if that would make a difference. And for the love of god it was her one frivolity. Plus she wasn't complaining, she was just saying how it was and wondering if anyone else experienced the same. But a lot of people cannot hear or accept what is happening for other people.

So poor children whose parents don’t have the money to buy teacher plastic shite or expensive rubbish all live in b and bs?

Some do. Seems people here struggle to accept that is a real situation for many.

People do not understand when they have not experienced it, I wince sometimes when I read the 'advice' given on here, when someone desperately posts about a problem, which is the result of having no money to meet expectations of friends or school, or even to just feed their children. I am in a better position now, but still waver over buying things like kitchen bin liners or paper kitchen towel, because they are convenient but not essential.

I hate the suggestions for people to cancel a£5.99 Netflix subscription when this is the only ‘luxury’ no gym membership, no eating out no cinema just Netflix- get rid of it that £5.99 will make the biggest difference.
Yes now they will be skint and bored.

@BoredZelda I know.

I’m pointing out that they may not be living in a crappy b&b. They may be in the rented terrace, the middle class bought semi, the flat on a council estate.

They can be anywhere. It’s not just in a b&b as @LemonRoses inferred.

I'm constantly skint. My DH works in a good job but we can't seem to ever keep up with our bills and food and the increase in the cost of living. I am looking for a job now my youngest is starting school. DH gets paid on a Friday, by the time I pay all my bills and get food shopping sometimes on a Monday I have £10 left, sometimes £0.

My best friend and her husband both have well paid professional jobs and her husband has just inherited over £150,000 yet I constantly have to listen to her tell me how skint they are. She doesn't live in the real world.

I remember a poster - it must have been a few years ago now - who said she had no money to buy her kids nice things or go on holiday, while exH was rich, and she felt it was unfair.

Turned out she had £50k+ in savings but didn't want to touch that pot so people's idea of 'no money' differs!

Someone poster might post about literally not being able to make ends meet ie no money, and people will always suggest "moving to a cheaper area" as if moving is a) instant and b) without initial cost.
Even the ubiquitous "take in ironing" might require someone to buy an iron or a better iron! And presumably stationary for any admin they might need to do