To think most of MN don’t know what having no money means

[icecolddrinks]

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

Btw debt is the number one reason for poverty in my experience. The amount benefits pay (in most circumstances assuming your rent is covered by the local area housing allowance element of uc) is ok on a short term basis but people have so many loans - cars, pay by the week furniture/white goods, store cards and credit cards, often as much as their uc payment each month. UC literally covers the basics no more, I don't think people realise this if they aren't benefit claimants

@newnortherner111

Most of MN may not know or have experienced it, but 100% of this government have not a clue about this.

I think some of them do have a clue, but don't care, which is even worse.

@TwinsandTrifle

Well when it happened to me there was no benefits, there was no ‘loan’ from UC to get me through or food banks. That wait before I got tax credits went on and on because of ‘administrative error’ on their part. Husband had left and my job was evenings and weekends and he used to be home to take over while I worked. So when he went I lost his wage, my job and then had an extraordinarily long wait for benefits. For the interim I could only find a cleaning job that paid less then a third of my rent and council tax. So even when I finally got benefits through, there was still a huge shortfall on bills.

It took the best part of a year before I was able to sort maintenance / divorce settlement / get tax credits and housing benefit through (that was 8 months alone) move to a cheaper area, get a decent job. In the meantime I had to shoplift from supermarkets to feed my children, evade council tax bailiffs and when I finally moved house, I changed my name by deedpoll to register in my new area to avoid the gas and electric companies chasing me.

I’m really glad you were able to make great choices and had so much money on benefits. I suppose I could have chosen not to throw my abusive husband out and honestly, if I knew what I would go through I probably wouldn’t have.

However, 15 years on I’m very pleased I did. At no point did my children know, teachers or health visitors know what was going on.

There’s also plenty of people who are honest/moan re no money but then make life choices that don’t correspond with that and aren’t doing anything about seeking work, more hours etc.

Yep.

Sometimes though people use the expression no money when actually they have simply prioritised their spending in a a way that isn't optimal, an outsider can sometimes see this clearer.

100% this. You haven't got "no money." You had money, and used it for xyz (not bills or food) so you had money, and spent it. If you hadn't bought xyz, then you wouldn't have "no money."

We've got a massive culture of no accountability and inflated entitlement.

As I said I have claimed benefits previously, and some months found myself paying out all the food and bills, with hundreds left spare. Or. I could have spent those hundreds on outlandish trainers for DS, a phone upgrade, takeaways. I've got "no money" then.

I’ve been skint (no money so had to put a unexpected bill on credit card) but never broke-choosing between heating or food.

2 different things. I’m lucky I’ve never been broke, but no one knows what the future holds so never say never.

I remember year ago raiding my mums freezer for food because me and DH didn’t have any food money to buy food it was awful. We are much better off now but I’ll always remember that ‘poor’ feeling and people wanting to be kind and pay for stuff but you’d rather they didn’t as it makes you feel worse.

I think it's down to people's character soemtimes.

I have a friend who I saw regularly and would sometimes talk to about stuff going on in my life. Her response was always to give a solution to the problem, when I just wanted someone to listen and empathise. I imagine it's the same on mn.

I remember once when I didn't have money worries saying to my friend "god I'm skint" and her looking really concerned and asking if I needed a tenner to tide me over. I was so confused because when id said I was skint I meant I'd had my car serviced and bought 4 new tires so I couldn't go in to london shopping and to a show that weekend like I'd planned. I still went for coffee, bought some make up, took the kids for lunch and got a taxi home from town and got a take away.

It wasn't until years later when I had 3p to last 4 days that I realised what being skint actually is.

@TwinsandTrifle

There’s also plenty of people who are honest/moan re no money but then make life choices that don’t correspond with that and aren’t doing anything about seeking work, more hours etc.

Yep.

Sometimes though people use the expression no money when actually they have simply prioritised their spending in a a way that isn't optimal, an outsider can sometimes see this clearer.

100% this. You haven't got "no money." You had money, and used it for xyz (not bills or food) so you had money, and spent it. If you hadn't bought xyz, then you wouldn't have "no money."

We've got a massive culture of no accountability and inflated entitlement.

As I said I have claimed benefits previously, and some months found myself paying out all the food and bills, with hundreds left spare. Or. I could have spent those hundreds on outlandish trainers for DS, a phone upgrade, takeaways. I've got "no money" then.

You have no idea what it's like today, not a single clue.

@OlympicProcrastinator

I remember years ago being eligible for my kids to have FSM but I just couldn’t let the school know. I knew I’d be treated differently and so would my children. Also, when one of them was born I got repeated letters telling me to claim for free fruit and veg. But in order to do so, I’d have to go and tell my health visitor how poor I was and get her to sign something. Not something I felt I could do. So glad those days are over but it certainly shaped me as a person and taught me a lot about judging others without fully understanding circumstances.

You can't eat pride though, can you?

Well when it happened to me there was no benefits, there was no ‘loan’ from UC to get me through or food banks.

Same here. Like you, I applied for tax credits and didn't have a food bank.

That wait before I got tax credits went on and on because of ‘administrative error’ on their part.

I'm very sorry this happened to you

It took the best part of a year before I was able to sort maintenance / divorce settlement / get tax credits and housing benefit through (that was 8 months alone)

Right so, your situation is not reflective at all of the norm. I'm an accountant. I know the "system" so to speak, and your tax credits should have taken no more than a month to instate.

You had no money because you had an almost unheard of administrative wait of 8 months. You weren't receiving anything. This is not what we're talking about.

@icecolddrinks

I’m not talking about the scamming trolls.

I mean threads like this.

AIBU about this? Ds’s school have organised a charity event where each child pays £1 and has to wear something red. Ds isn’t keen on red so I can’t find anything and I have no money and I don’t have a spare £1

She should go to the charity shop, it’s only a pound, go on Facebook and admit it, tell the school.

That’s what I mean.

But what’s wrong with the suggestion of telling the school, or asking around on fob or elsewhere to see if anyone has a spare red top?

What else would be helpful instead?

Do you think it’s better to only give emotional support and empathy on those threads or to offer practical suggestions?

*It isn't hard to acknowledge I've been there.

When I started out as a legal aid trainee lawyer and paying back law school debt it was living off beans on toast and saying no to every social invitation.*

I think it's probably different as a single student paying back debt vs a lone parent with children on minimum wage/UC. You may have not had money, but you won't face the social stigma others do

I don't mean to sound dismissive. My point is you could have the exact same bank balance as someone else, but one will be judged harsher and find it more humiliating

But perhaps the non pride diet sticks in the throat too much.

@LemonRoses

No reasonable teacher, no reasonable human, would expect a present off a child who was living in a grim bed and breakfast place without access to cooking facilities.

Wtf?

No @NailsNeedDoing

How about YANBU. Schools should stop doing this?

Yes people don't seem to understand that there's a huge difference between temporarily having no money just before pay day or whatever and not having any money or access to it. Not everyone has credit, an overdraft or bank of mum and dad.

I was thinking about this last weekend when my train home to Glasgow from London was cancelled and no other trains we're available. Getting the overnight mega bus from a bus station from a different area of London was a massive PITA but at least I could whip out my credit card to pay for a taxi and buy a bus ticket. What if you don't have that? What do you do?

My theory is that it makes people who are financially okay, even if they're not comfortably off but manage to make ends meet, feel guilty or uncomfortable to realise how difficult some people have it; the constant worry and difficult situations that arise, so they turn away from understanding.

Maybe some people think it's only in 3rd world countries that there's absolute poverty so it's not really a 'thing'?

@newnortherner111

Most of MN may not know or have experienced it, but 100% of this government have not a clue about this.

I think they (Gov) are too firmly entrenched in the belief that poverty = laziness and lack of ambition. Y'know, get more hours of get a better job. Sure that can work but it's not the solution and not available for the majority.

I think @LemonRoses must be referring to another thread none of us have seen … surely!?

I know the crumbs of poverty are little known in some quarters but it’s not the Gorbals in 1973

The amount benefits pay (in most circumstances assuming your rent is covered by the local area housing allowance element of uc) is ok on a short term basis but people have so many loans - cars, pay by the week furniture/white goods, store cards and credit cards, often as much as their uc payment each month.

The amount on benefits is designed to literally put food on the table, it doesn’t cover clothes, shoes, furniture, travel costs, or most things folk would consider part of daily life. If something breaks, a week to week loan is often the only way folk can afford to replace it because standard lenders won’t lend to people on benefits, it’s vastly more expensive to make larger purchases if you’re poor. And kids still need clothes and shoes, washing machines still break, etc etc.

I don’t know anyone living on benefits who has hundreds left at the end of a month. I think really understanding that some people literally live hand to mouth, with no wriggle room is too uncomfortable for many mumsnetters to contemplate hence the endless suggestions to use non-existent money.

You have no idea what it's like today, not a single clue.

I have. I'm an accountant with quite a bit of experience in advising in this area.

And did a calc to see what UC I'd qualify for. 1 adult. 3 kids.

I would get all my rent paid. All bar £8.40 a month council tax paid. And £1373 in UC and child benefit. After bills and food, that leaves me circa £500 per month for non essentials.

I'd get if it left me £50. But £500? And for those who want to claim well that's loads, you've got 3DC. Let me just clarify that the amount drops by about £250 for having one DC instead. So you are actually better off the fewer DC you have.

I know the crumbs of poverty are little known in some quarters but it’s not the Gorbals in 1973

I’m a social worker in Glasgow and believe me when I say there are folk living in absolute poverty in some parts of the city.

I definitely get the idea that most of Mn are pretty wealthy. Any threads about wages would lead you to believe the average uk salary is about 70k, but I think lower earners tend not to post after the first 3 pages of people earning 100k +.

If anyone complains about the cost of anything school uniforms or school trips they are often told they shouldnt have had dC if they cant afford them.

A lot of my friends are in a different income bracket to me. One of my friends often talks of having to "tighten their belts" and says theyve spent too much money but in the same conversation will talk about several meals out theyve been for , a foreign holiday they've booked and what project in the house thryre starting next.

@icecolddrinks

No *@NailsNeedDoing*

How about YANBU. Schools should stop doing this?

So you would prefer responses to just provide a bit of solidarity rather than actual help?

Schools aren’t going to stop asking parents to contribute to things in schools where the majority of parents can afford this things for their children, and when it’s voluntary for charity there’s no obligation to pay anyway. There is nothing wrong with borrowing a red top or whatever for the day, people with very healthy bank balances would do the same just because it makes sense.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I agree but I think it’s because so many middleclassers throw the word skint and have redefined it “Oh I’m skint”….having put £800 in my savings, paid off my credit card and still have £200 to last 3 wks

I have to agree that "skint" I'd often redefined to our own circumstances. As I said previously on the thread, 15 years ago "skint" to me meant feeding my daughter instead of myself and my parents bailing me out to pay household bills, as well as threats of my car being repossessed...

Today I might throw out the phrase "I can't sorry I'm skint this month" if I'm asked by a friend to do something. But what I mean is I've paid all essential bills, budgeted for my monthly food shop, filled up my car, put money in savings, paid off credit card and I have just a few hundred left. I now realise from this thread and other people's situations, that this is not skint. Not even close. Which makes me feel a bit ashamed if I'm honest.