To think most of MN don’t know what having no money means

[icecolddrinks]

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

As I said I have claimed benefits previously, and some months found myself paying out all the food and bills, with hundreds left spare. Or. I could have spent those hundreds on outlandish trainers for DS, a phone upgrade, takeaways. I've got "no money" then.

This is absolute bullshit and definitely not my experience of being on benefits. Nor does poverty = benefits. In fact the poorest times of my life was a) as a child, one FT working father and one SAHM (as was the way then) and b) when I was doing professional training as a post grad. Although being on benefits as a single person was also tough.

When I was first married, we were skint. Provident loan skint, using family allowance for baby milk and nappies skint. We used to go to my grandmother's house and she would pretend she had loads of food 'close to use by date" that she wouldn't eat, and get me to clear the fridge out for her. Of course it was all stuff she had bought for us, but knew we would be too proud to accept otherwise. We couldn't have bought a costume for school if it was needed - my mum had a sewing machine luckily so I would ask her to run something up if needed.

I'm now at a stage where I could afford most things I wanted to casually buy (not massive purchases but for example if the washing machine packed up I could replace it) but still have the same mentality I did when skint - look for the best price, see if anyone in the family is getting rid of anything that could do first, wait a little while to see if I need it or want it. It doesn't leave you, so it leads to me to conclude that anyone who doesn't get it, has never been truly skint.

@TwinsandTrifle that's crazy!

That poster is on a windup, it was her trilling on about boden

that £100 on botox that she did not need at the age of 30 could be spent on a nice item of clothing or shoes, etc

Classic example of poverty-splaining.

She said over and again why she spent £100 a year (£2 a week) on botox. Who are you to say she doesn't need it? The arrogance of breathtaking.

The simple truth is that she is being underpaid and that is disgraceful. A person working full time should be able to live with dignity and not constantly fret about being able to buy basics.

She was not in the least bit irresponsible with money, but where there is greed so too will there be suffering. Some call it market forces but I'd say it's a giant con.

Anyone just waiting for someone to suggest poor people could just ‘take in some ironing?’

I think something like 1 in 5 kids is on fsm now so I wouldn't worry about them being singled out.

TwinsandTrifle you’re assuming that the people with no money whatsoever are on benefits?
The absolute most broke I have ever been was when we had one income as a family of about 30k. And lived in an expensive part of the country. It wasn’t posh, it was actually a dive, but even dives were expensive round there. We were properly broke, had to sorn the car as we couldn’t put petrol in it, ate bowls of rice for dinner etc etc and entitled to no help.

You weren't receiving anything. This is not what we're talking about.

Go and read the OP. This is about poverty. Sorry if you thought it was a thread about how wealthy you were on benefits because of your shrewd financial choices.

But they are singled out.

They are identified as pupil premium students and different schools spend this money differently but it always involves singling out.

@icecolddrinks

But they are singled out.

They are identified as pupil premium students and different schools spend this money differently but it always involves singling out.

Bit how would the singling out manifest?

Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow The problem is that's just not universally true! In some schools, areas, it's absolutely true, and I'm not out to knock teachers as a species, but have you actually met all your collegues? For those of us who've dared to be un-monied in the wrong areas it's anything but true and can have far reaching consequences if 'other pieces of the picture' start being misinterpreted because of stereotypes and lazy thinking.

I'm not seeking to put anyone of claiming anything, but pretending it's automatically without consequence is disingenuous.

@TwinsandTrifle

You have no idea what it's like today, not a single clue.

I have. I'm an accountant with quite a bit of experience in advising in this area.

And did a calc to see what UC I'd qualify for. 1 adult. 3 kids.

I would get all my rent paid. All bar £8.40 a month council tax paid. And £1373 in UC and child benefit. After bills and food, that leaves me circa £500 per month for non essentials.

I'd get if it left me £50. But £500? And for those who want to claim well that's loads, you've got 3DC. Let me just clarify that the amount drops by about £250 for having one DC instead. So you are actually better off the fewer DC you have.

Your rent would have to be paid out of the universal credit. There is no separate housing benefit payment. Or do you mean you'd have £1,373 left after you'd paid the rent?

@icecolddrinks

I’m not talking about the scamming trolls.

I mean threads like this.

AIBU about this? Ds’s school have organised a charity event where each child pays £1 and has to wear something red. Ds isn’t keen on red so I can’t find anything and I have no money and I don’t have a spare £1

She should go to the charity shop, it’s only a pound, go on Facebook and admit it, tell the school.

That’s what I mean.

Definitely tell the school..they can help. Recently we provided a food parcel, uniform and other essential items to a family moving into our school. Mum was very proud and took several huge hints about what we could offer before she accepted. In our area there is alot out there for struggling families but you have to know about it and ask for it and that's where your school can help.

I have had NO money and I have been lucky enough to be comfortable.

But I also dealt with mortgage arrears and possessions .

You might be surprised what some people count as necessities.

When we were broke. We had to buy food at the markets and clothes from jumble sales and turn the heating off and sell cars etc . So I do sympathise . I also did make costumes etc for school from sheets or curtains and things like that . But we were still not as bad off as people who went through rationing and the war ? So it depends what you compare it with .

My dc have been pp for most of their school lives. Actually probably all because of the pp run on which they got even when I was working. They've never been singled out. Most of their teachers don't know. The ones who do are lovely. Their friends only know if they tell them.

In different ways, you know this.

Free school trips. Free books and revision guides. Identified in the seating plan and the register. Policy of marking PP books first. Clubs and revision sessions. TA support.

It varies tremendously, some schools you might have one PP student in the class, some schools the whole class might be PP bar a handful.

But positive singling out is still singling out.

I've got one on fsm and she hasn't experienced any singling out. Maybe behind the scenes they know but it hasn't had any adverse affect on her in terms of feeling singled out or judged or anything.

We had a call near the end of the last school year making us aware there was support for uniform if needed... and we get the fsm vouchers in the holidays but she doesn't have to go about in a special vest or anything

I hated some of the suggestions in that other thread. People saying ‘oh save money by cutting your own hair at home’ or ‘get a side hustle.’

The woman had a low wage, she wasn’t being silly with her money and was living within her means. Expecting to be able to get your hair cut isn’t exactly flashing the cash around town. And when you’re already working a full time job, it isn’t that easy to just get a second one, often workplaces don’t like to take on people in other jobs as there’s a lack of flexibility, and also it would be exhausting to work a full time job plus another one.

A lot of people seem to think if you’re poor it’s because you’ve made mistakes, when sometimes you’re just being paid a low wage. Many jobs that are really important (childcare and nurseries for one) are paid far too low a wage.

most of their teachers don’t know

In which case that PP money is being badly spent.

Teachers absolutely should know who is PP in their class.

Your rent would have to be paid out of the universal credit. There is no separate housing benefit payment. Or do you mean you'd have £1,373 left after you'd paid the rent?

After I'd paid the rent.

And OP how dare you insult me that I'm some "wind up" because I'm a qualified accountant who has seen enough bad money management and people making excuses that I know it is predominantly not the benefits that are the problem.

You dont like thats the fact of the matter, not my issue. Thank you.

@icecolddrinks

In different ways, you know this.

Free school trips. Free books and revision guides. Identified in the seating plan and the register. Policy of marking PP books first. Clubs and revision sessions. TA support.

It varies tremendously, some schools you might have one PP student in the class, some schools the whole class might be PP bar a handful.

But positive singling out is still singling out.

Oh right, I thought you meant the kids would know/ feel they were singled out and that it would be a negative thing.

As I said I have claimed benefits previously, and some months found myself paying out all the food and bills, with hundreds left spare. Or. I could have spent those hundreds on outlandish trainers for DS, a phone upgrade, takeaways. I've got "no money" then.

Funny that cos when I had to claim benefits there was a two week gap which combined with my new health issues and DH packing up and fucking off left me without any money, not a bean.
Which is why when Cash Converters opened in our town I was there on opening day with the DC in the car and the tele.
It must have been the outlandish shoes.

'using family allowance for baby milk and nappies skint. '

Isn't that what child benefit is for?

Of course different people refer to being skint differently. It is because it is all relative and just because one person has zero pence until Friday doesn't mean someone with a mortgage and lots of outgoings isn't allowed to stress when they are down to their last 20 quid.

@icecolddrinks

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

It annoys me when people say stuff like 'can't you get an overdraft' or 'get a 0% credit card'. I feel. Like screaming don't you think they would already have done I if they could. Or the usual stuff like move to a cheaper area, get a better paid job, get a second job etc.... Yeah like it's always so easy and straightforward.