Seeing family for a month, DH says no

[Husbandswife]

Need advice - I’ve only been at home once in the last 2 years. I want to go visit my family for a month in September, taking my three year old. My DH says it’s too long and I can go for that length but I can’t take our child. AIBU?

@NewlyGranny

None of the above, Whiskycav. It's the "Child's father knows best, do what your husband orders you to, don't question his right to command obedience, he earns all the money," brigade.

Doris Day will be along in a moment to tilt her head to one side and do a tinkly laugh, no doubt. 🙄

So you haven't read the thread then?

I take it 'oohhh is it 1951?' is just your stock insult. Even when it's not relevant

@Almondcroissant25 not sure that poster like women, either, judging by the comments.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

I don't know why you couldn't have compromised and gone for 3 weeks instead of the full month.

I know you have a lot of responses on this thread, but I have actually been in your situation, without the ability for DH to join us (willingly or not) and 3 weeks was long enough at that age for my DSs.

What’s the difference - three weeks or four? Perhaps if OP’s husband had said that in the first place she might have agreed. He gave her a flat no and told her she could go alone, despite having to work full time. Who did he think was going to look after her? The child care fairies?

And he’s too selfish to spend a weekend with her because it’s “boring”. He sounds about 12.

I don’t get what difference three weeks makes to four either. Particularly if DH joins us for a weekend midway through. Even if he thinks it will be boring. I find it incredulous how many woman put their own and extended family needs behind the convenience of a husband here.
And just some extra information for the backward thinking posters, I am the major breadwinner (by double), have a successful career, am primary carer and also have a loving happy relationship. Such a scenario does exist! We chose nursery rather than a nanny due to being an only child, so we share pick up/drop off arrangements. We just happen to differ on this issue so I wanted to see what other people thought. I happen to have Sept off due to being between jobs. This opportunity won’t present itself again in the near future.
And to the people saying I should have agreed this before marriage - I wasn’t planning on having a child and we thought we’d be living back at my home by now. Surely the last 18 months has taught us that you cannot predict what the future will be like.

Plus you have no idea about our citizenships, so assuming that if we divorced our child would stay here is ridiculous. It’s quite the opposite actually, we would be based back at my home.

There's obviously a difference between 3 and 4 weeks. Which is why you want to go for 4.

If you see no difference between 3 and 4 weeks go for 3!

25% extra time of not seeing your child is a lot for most people

Go for 3 weeks if you see no difference OP, and don’t ask for opinions if you don’t like them!

It isn't in the child's best interests because the child is the age she is. She is not of an age when she can appreciate being away, meeting people and so on. She's of an age when she'll enjoy the novelty of it for a short while, and will then want to go home and to get back to her normality. Three-year-olds love normality. They don't love being shipped around

What experience do you have of doing this with your children, PeterIsACockwomble?

Because nothing you say here is true in my experience. I did it with all three of mine, from two months and seven months old. And they thrived on the attention they got on these visits and I thrived because it allowed me to take a break. Which meant I was a better parent. And the visits allowed all of us to benefit from my parents' experience as well as their love and care.

The kids have a wonderful relationship with my DH, but they see him for the majority of the time, which is why they always look forward to seeing my parents and always feel the visits are way too short. Even when we stayed for two months. When we got stuck here because of the Icelandic volcano grounding all the planes, they were delighted at those bonus days.

In fact, my kids love it so much at my parents, they now come on their own and bring their pals or girlfriends.

I've shared my experience with home visits with other immigrant parents, who have all told me the same is true for them. The children thrived, the immigrant parent thrived.

So you're wrong, it absolutely is in the interest of the child to spend time with all of their family. And the longer the better in our experience. Our three week visits are never as fully present as the five to six week ones.

I understand that for some people it is unthinkable to spend any time apart from their partner or children. For me it is unthinkable not to spend those weeks visiting my parents. I never gave my DH a choice btw. I made sacrifices for him, this was a sacrifice he made for me. Not because he wanted to but because I needed him to do so.

@Husbandswife

I don’t get what difference three weeks makes to four either. Particularly if DH joins us for a weekend midway through. Even if he thinks it will be boring. I find it incredulous how many woman put their own and extended family needs behind the convenience of a husband here. And just some extra information for the backward thinking posters, I am the major breadwinner (by double), have a successful career, am primary carer and also have a loving happy relationship. Such a scenario does exist! We chose nursery rather than a nanny due to being an only child, so we share pick up/drop off arrangements. We just happen to differ on this issue so I wanted to see what other people thought. I happen to have Sept off due to being between jobs. This opportunity won’t present itself again in the near future. And to the people saying I should have agreed this before marriage - I wasn’t planning on having a child and we thought we’d be living back at my home by now. Surely the last 18 months has taught us that you cannot predict what the future will be like.

Plus you have no idea about our citizenships, so assuming that if we divorced our child would stay here is ridiculous. It’s quite the opposite actually, we would be based back at my home.

There are a lot of people on Mumsnet for whom the idea of being away from home for 4 weeks would be a nightmare and they're not really keen on other people as far as I can tell!

Asking here, you're always going to get people who spend far too much time in front of a screen and not enough out in the world living life. (Including myself here sadly!) Plus the people who just love having a go at others.

Your idea is perfectly reasonable. Try asking the same question on something like an ex-pat forum and you'd get very different responses I imagine.

I find you so arrogant … which is the point of asking for opinions if you’re going to say things like you’ve said about the ones who don’t agree with you.
But what am I saying you don’t even take into account your husbands opinions… how are you going to care about what others say.
I guess we should ask your husband whether he’s in a happy marriage when he’s opinión doesn’t matter

For the record I’m also the breadwinner of the family but that at least in my house doesn’t give me more right to do something

Not sure where you’re from nor based but at least in the Uk you can’t take a child abroad without the other person who has parental rights approval to avoid kidnapping. When I’ve flown on my own with my son to my home country to visit my family I’ve always taken a paper with me that says that my husband is happy with it. (This is what the British law says)

I understand that your husband will miss you and your child if you go away for four weeks but the time will fly past until you are home again.

Please do go. He'll get over it.

[quote PeterIsACockwomble]@AhNowTed It isn't in the child's best interests because the child is the age she is. She is not of an age when she can appreciate being away, meeting people and so on. She's of an age when she'll enjoy the novelty of it for a short while, and will then want to go home and to get back to her normality. Three-year-olds love normality. They don't love being shipped around. It might - just might - be slightly different if the OP were a SAHM, as the child would at least have the 'normality' of being solely with her mum. Even then, though, it's a long time to go without her dad. It's lovely for the relatives, obviously, to get to know their little grandchild/niece, and it's crap that Covid came along and prevented more and shorter visits.

I don't see why the OP couldn't, now, revert to her earlier routine of making more, shorter, visits. Unless there's a very pressing reason why September is the only month she can have off work? Even then, it would arguably be nicer for the child to spend some time at home with her, rather than spending the entire time travelling and visiting.[/quote]
@PeterIsACockwomble perhaps you should return your 3yo, they might be faulty. This applies to no 3yo I know, including when mine have variously been 3. They need their primary parent and that’s it. I did worry if they’d miss their dad after a few weeks (he’s a fabulous dad and I certainly missed having him there) but they were fine every time. They adored time with grandparents, including without me there. They’ve also adored travelling for over a month and moving every few nights and still talk about it years later. 3yo and small children generally are supremely adaptable.

The difference between 3 weeks and 4 is from experience of having done this many times.
At that age, my DC started to get antsy and homesick after about 2 1/2 weeks, and miss their Dad and their toys etc. - before that it was all new and exciting but around that point, they'd start asking when they were going home.

3 weeks was also what DH was happy with - he wouldn't have liked 4 either.

If people can't understand that, then there's no helping them.

IMO, your H has zero comprehension of what its like to live in a country away from your own family, roots, language (?) traditions.
He has not been separated from any if those things
He is thinking of himself. Not you & not your child. Does he generally dominate?
Only you know if you want to make this your hill to die on.
Would he accept 3 weeks?
If not go for 2 weeks several times a year. (Depending on distance & cost)

We understand that perfectly @ThumbWitchesAbroad, but that’s your kid. They’re all different.

KidS.

It's a very long time since any of my children was 3, but if there's still an option to return them 20 years on, I'll take it .

That aside, my experience is that a fortnight is enough for a child of that age.

So we can agree to disagree, ThumbWitchesAbroad and PeterIsACockwomble because what worked best for your kids isn't what worked best for mine. And maybe we can agree that it's likely, given the special circumstances of an immigrant parent, that the OP's kid may well thrive with the longer stay.

Because as I said, to my kids 3 weeks was never long enough. This is their home away from home. I'm here now with my 14 and 18 year-old and I know when the older one's three weeks are up, he'll wish he could stay longer.

In 23 years, none of them ever got antsy about being here. I thought I couldn't come for this long once they hit their teens, thinking they'd miss their friends too much, but fortunately for everyone, I was wrong. I gave them the choice once they were old enough, and they still choose to come. When my oldest was 18, he decided on a shorter stay at Christmas, because he wanted to spend Hogmanay with friends instead of us. Which to date is the only time the older two would rather go home than be here and I totally understand. I wouldn't have spent Hogmanay with my parents and grandparents either at that age.

In all honesty, the only one who wants to leave sometimes, and only in the summer is me. Because I'm not in charge here and after five or six weeks, I get to the point where I would like to be in my own home again.

Not sure where you’re from nor based but at least in the Uk you can’t take a child abroad without the other person who has parental rights approval to avoid kidnapping. When I’ve flown on my own with my son to my home country to visit my family I’ve always taken a paper with me that says that my husband is happy with it. (This is what the British law says)

There's no such thing as British law, EasterIssland and I have never carried nor ever been asked to show proof that their father consented to me taking the kids abroad in about 70 trips so far. (And we've travelled on passports with different surnames and different nationalities.)

The United Kingdom has some laws that apply to the whole country. This is called UK law. But mostly it has four separate and independent legal systems that govern our lives: Scots law, English law, Welsh law and Northern Ireland law. (There are only three jurisdictions though because Welsh law and English law almost always go together.)

As you point out quite rightly, under the law in England and Wales one parent cannot take a child out of England and Wales without the consent of the other (which applies even if you're just travelling to Scotland).

However, where a parent denies consent (outwith court-mandated parental orders), the parent who wishes to travel with the child can make a simple application to the court for permission, which the court customarily grants in all but exceptional circumstances. Which are a) the country the child is to be taken to is deemed unsafe and b) there is an evidence-based and reasonable suspicion the parent will abscond with the child. The other parent merely not wanting to be without their child for a few weeks is not considered sufficient reason for the court to deny this permission.

Cases where a) or b) apply are so exceptionally rare that this is most likely the reason no one really cares whether you have written permission or not.

@Husbandswife

I don’t get what difference three weeks makes to four either. Particularly if DH joins us for a weekend midway through. Even if he thinks it will be boring. I find it incredulous how many woman put their own and extended family needs behind the convenience of a husband here. And just some extra information for the backward thinking posters, I am the major breadwinner (by double), have a successful career, am primary carer and also have a loving happy relationship. Such a scenario does exist! We chose nursery rather than a nanny due to being an only child, so we share pick up/drop off arrangements. We just happen to differ on this issue so I wanted to see what other people thought. I happen to have Sept off due to being between jobs. This opportunity won’t present itself again in the near future. And to the people saying I should have agreed this before marriage - I wasn’t planning on having a child and we thought we’d be living back at my home by now. Surely the last 18 months has taught us that you cannot predict what the future will be like.

Plus you have no idea about our citizenships, so assuming that if we divorced our child would stay here is ridiculous. It’s quite the opposite actually, we would be based back at my home.

I say go for it! It’ll be great for your child and you.

@CharlieParley

Not sure where you’re from nor based but at least in the Uk you can’t take a child abroad without the other person who has parental rights approval to avoid kidnapping. When I’ve flown on my own with my son to my home country to visit my family I’ve always taken a paper with me that says that my husband is happy with it. (This is what the British law says)

There's no such thing as British law, EasterIssland and I have never carried nor ever been asked to show proof that their father consented to me taking the kids abroad in about 70 trips so far. (And we've travelled on passports with different surnames and different nationalities.)

The United Kingdom has some laws that apply to the whole country. This is called UK law. But mostly it has four separate and independent legal systems that govern our lives: Scots law, English law, Welsh law and Northern Ireland law. (There are only three jurisdictions though because Welsh law and English law almost always go together.)

As you point out quite rightly, under the law in England and Wales one parent cannot take a child out of England and Wales without the consent of the other (which applies even if you're just travelling to Scotland).

However, where a parent denies consent (outwith court-mandated parental orders), the parent who wishes to travel with the child can make a simple application to the court for permission, which the court customarily grants in all but exceptional circumstances. Which are a) the country the child is to be taken to is deemed unsafe and b) there is an evidence-based and reasonable suspicion the parent will abscond with the child. The other parent merely not wanting to be without their child for a few weeks is not considered sufficient reason for the court to deny this permission.

Cases where a) or b) apply are so exceptionally rare that this is most likely the reason no one really cares whether you have written permission or not.

Sorry for my big mistake of confusing which law is it @CharlieParley

Here it’s a page in the government website which explains what needs to be done for taking a child abroad.

I’ll copy what it says

You must get the permission of everyone with parental responsibility for a child or from a court before taking the child abroad.
Taking a child abroad without permission is child abduction.

You automatically have parental responsibility if you’re the child’s mother, but you still need the permission of anyone else with parental responsibility before you take the child abroad.

It’d not be the first time someone is stopped in an airport because of not having these authorisation. I’ve never been asked for it but I’ve read about mums being stopped in my local Facebook.

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Oh, FGS, there's clearly no question of child abduction here. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Oh, FGS, there's clearly no question of child abduction here. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

Those are the rules that are to protect those at risk. There are many rules that don’t affect me but I still have to comply with them because others won’t.

@EasterIssland - you are assuming that the OP lives in England. And again, the situation you are imagining is not the actual one being talked about here.

[quote Jaichangecentfoisdenom]@EasterIssland - you are assuming that the OP lives in England. And again, the situation you are imagining is not the actual one being talked about here.[/quote]
@Jaichangecentfoisdenom
Take you’ve not read my first comment where I was mentioning this rule and where I said “I don’t know where you live and where you’re flying to”.

It’s neither the situation in my scenario , but when I fly on my own with my son to my birth country I carry that paper since I read people in my local Facebook had been stopped by police because they weren’t carrying it. Again just because op is not abducting her child doesn’t mean others don’t. And to protect those that might be abducted the government here (and other countries ) requiere that whoever is flying with their child carry a permission. If the other person that has parental rights is happy with the trip it won’t be so difficult to get the permission from them.