Pandemic dad having eyes opened

[AwakeAwake]

Men get paternity leave for first 2 weeks or month if lucky.
Babies usually just sleep and feed that first week or two.
Therefore men are getting a false sense of what it is to parent small baby.

My husband has never spent much time with tiny child until now working from home and new arrival in the house.
Previous children he's just been off a week, held a sleepy newborn and back to work when the real excitement kicks off.

Aibu to think that pandemic parents are getting a taste finally of how bloody challenging a baby is?
No longer can they escape to work for 12hrs and come home asking what you did all day. No longer can they pretend they don't see how hard a toddler is running riot I'm the house.

The washing, cleaning, nappies, activities, screaming, tantrums etc. All laid bare at last.

My husband genuinely looked surprised that a toddler has tantrums as he didn't see it with first, potty training doesn't just magically occur, food splatters everywhere and must be cleaned up. These are all new to him.

Paternity leave should be month 2.

🤣 retirement as equaliser?

You’re surely not that naïve?
This lazy arse isn’t going to have a personality transplant.

You’ll be working and practically and emotionally supporting 3 teens.
Because:

• he can’t be arsed
• you care
• they’ll anyway come to you not him as you’re the one that knows them and has patented them their whole lives

Then maybe, when they no longer need you, he’ll decide he doesn’t either. Obviously that’s not guaranteed - though it’s not out there, statistically. But I would bet actual real money that he does NOT become more of a parent to them in their teens and his retirement.

Shocked at the many negative responses. Mine are late teens early 20s and during first lockdown dh commented this was the most dinners he had ever eaten with our children. He now calls it his "last summer" and in a way feels lockdown 1 gave him a gift of time with our children before they were all off.

1 year on 1 has moved out 1 is at uni and 1 is in DK doing a IB unlikely yo return to live in the UK as utterly in love with DK.

When I had my 3rd we worked out after that sh had slept at home that year 136 nights his job was a lot of travel at the time and I just had to cope.

He is aware of how much he missed out on now but at the time he really wasn't.

That's not my experience at all.

He saw tantrums at weekends and at night - he was better than me at dealing with colicky babies. He could sleep through crying at night but he was on night duty once a week so I could lie in the next day. He saw the kids constantly climbing on me and cooks at weekends so knows what it's like.

Tbh he spent paternity doing a lot of housework, dealing with the other kids and fetching me drinks and food so I didn't have to get up.

OP,
He sounds really lazy, deliberately so.

On the positive, make sure when his time comes he is well used to cooking dinners because teenagers eat a lot and you will not want to face into cooking after a days work, and he sounds like just the sort who would expect it.

Great news, I said, I'll relax at work while you entertain the teens.

I don't think this is going to bring the satisfaction you are anticipating. Teenagers don't need entertaining, do they? Disclaimer, my kids are still young but I would assume that with teenagers it's more about emotional support and navigating the transition to adulthood and I would bet anything you'll still be the default support parent despite him being retired. He's not going to be run ragged dealing with the physical and social needs of 3 teenagers in the way that you are with 3 little kids.

God you’re being absolutely roasted on here! I get what you’re saying. It’s harder tha. You think if you’ve never had to really spend 24/7 with the kids. It’s exhausting.
I don’t think you’re wrong. I don’t think that in the most case, partners realise how challenging and frustrating it is with a newborn and other kids too.

He saw tantrums at weekends and at night - he was better than me at dealing with colicky babies. He could sleep through crying at night but he was on night duty once a week so I could lie in the next day. He saw the kids constantly climbing on me and cooks at weekends so knows what it's like.

Lol at "he saw kids climbing on me" proving his dad credentials. oH and he also got up once every seven days! Whoopdy fucking doo. Oh and he saw tantrums for two hours in the evening? Of course he was better with colicy baby! He'd fucking slept for 6 nights a week.

This is the thing OP. My guess is that actually the people here claiming they don't understand because their dh's are so good is that they actually have very low standards to begin with.

I said earlier that I have one friend with a husband that genuinely does 50/50. She is a strong feminist and has a very high bar, so wouldn't be proud to announce that her husband watched her get climbed on! . I doubt she'd ever say anything about him doing his share, as it's just his job to do half. It's just occasionally pointed by other people out as it is so rare to see.

Great news, I said, I'll relax at work while you entertain the teens.

The thing is, comments like this are not dissimilar to comments about SAHPs sitting around relaxing at home. They just reveal a lack of understanding of the very real stresses and strains that people might be facing in their respective roles. If someone is the sole or main breadwinner for their family, it's highly unlikely that they will be "relaxing" at work, just as it's unlikely that a sahp will be "relaxing" at home. A little more respect on both sides would not go amiss.

In families where the father had stopped work while his partner continued, on average they did the same amount of household work – while the woman did an average of five hours of paid work a day.

From the Guardian about the discrepancy during lockdown. Even men with no work are only doing the same amount of household work as their working wives.

It's simply not true what the posters on this thread are saying.

@AlexaShutUp

Great news, I said, I'll relax at work while you entertain the teens.

The thing is, comments like this are not dissimilar to comments about SAHPs sitting around relaxing at home. They just reveal a lack of understanding of the very real stresses and strains that people might be facing in their respective roles. If someone is the sole or main breadwinner for their family, it's highly unlikely that they will be "relaxing" at work, just as it's unlikely that a sahp will be "relaxing" at home. A little more respect on both sides would not go amiss.

I’ve done both a stressful senior professional role (I’m a senior manager in an investment bank so not a low stress environment) and I’m been at home with three under five (one in reception, a toddler and a baby). And I know which is harder. I doubt many senior men have seen both jobs first hand.

@AlexaShutUp

Great news, I said, I'll relax at work while you entertain the teens.

The thing is, comments like this are not dissimilar to comments about SAHPs sitting around relaxing at home. They just reveal a lack of understanding of the very real stresses and strains that people might be facing in their respective roles. If someone is the sole or main breadwinner for their family, it's highly unlikely that they will be "relaxing" at work, just as it's unlikely that a sahp will be "relaxing" at home. A little more respect on both sides would not go amiss.

Very few stay at home parents have never worked.

And while the experience of a mother who works out of the home may be stressful because she comes home to the house a tip and children needing feeding. The experience of a father who has mentally shifted all the work to his wife is VERY different.

Two weeks or even a few hours around work is ok though. I think it's the relentless inescapable treadmill of childcare/ keeping the house sanitary that more non primary carers are appreciating by being around all the time.

I do hear you @AwakeAwake, but also I think it works both ways. Parenting is like most jobs, you don't know the reality until you do it. My DH only really understood what I did all day with four children when I wasn't around for some reason and he had to take care of them. However, he has always respected what I do both at work and at home. Lockdown has been an eye opener for me because, whilst I always knew he worked incredibly hard, I didn't have a real experience of it until I saw him doing it all day. I think the most important thing is respect for each other's responsibilities.

I’ve done both a stressful senior professional role (I’m a senior manager in an investment bank so not a low stress environment) and I’m been at home with three under five (one in reception, a toddler and a baby). And I know which is harder. I doubt many senior men have seen both jobs first hand.

I guess it varies from person to person, doesn't it? I find work far more stressful, but there are so many variables - your own strengths and weaknesses, how challenging your job is, how challenging your kids are etc.

Sorry. Most sahp have worked hard. If you've trained for years to do a job and are then doing stuff you never really studued for or gave much thought to then of course parenting can be hard. There's not many schools that teach how to manage a house, clean and care for a baby. Because they are considered pointless to employers. Just like sahp are considered pointless in society. At least that's what I get reminded of weekly.

I guess it varies from person to person, doesn't it? I find work far more stressful, but there are so many variables - your own strengths and weaknesses, how challenging your job is, how challenging your kids are etc.

There’s more scope to change your job. If you find work stressful you can look for something else, retrain etc. You can hardly get new kids.

Very few stay at home parents have never worked.

True, but the experience of having worked is not at all the same as the experience of being financially responsible for your whole family. That's akin to saying that a dad knows what it's like to be a sahp because he has looked after the dc at weekends. It isn't the same.

@AlexaShutUp

Very few stay at home parents have never worked.

True, but the experience of having worked is not at all the same as the experience of being financially responsible for your whole family. That's akin to saying that a dad knows what it's like to be a sahp because he has looked after the dc at weekends. It isn't the same.

Again, not strictly accurate.

My DH now comes home to fed kids a clean house and DOUBLE the salary he was on before we had kids. He's not spending his days worrying about the bills while he works. He isn't and while working mothers take a cut in the finances for daring to have children, married men have the privilege of a HIGHER wage than their single male counterparts. They also get child benefit, tax credit etc. And then in many (most?) cases come home to someone who has cleaned the house and cooked them dinner.

They then LIVE longer than single men because their lives aren't over run with worry.

So you're comparing apples and oranges. Well you're comparing men's lives to women's lives.

Many women come home and do a second shift in the house. I don't know many men who do that.

@BeIIend

I'd bet £££ that the ones most vehemently claiming their relationships 50/50 are actually the worst as they really have the rose tinted specs on. If you read this thread you'd think men do most of the child and house work and every study EVER would tell you that's not accurate. So these are the people who can't even see their dhs faults in the relationship.

Nope No rose tinted specs here. What you will find is those doing 50/50 are often in healthcare. Shifts mean that the working week can be nights and weekends . Often couples will have both parents working 3 x 12.5 hour shifts( 4 in one week per month) so the other parent will be at home. Its swings and roundabouts but what I have seen is Dads who are very hands on, no childcare costs and the knowledge for both parents that they have the back up at home. My DH loved it, days taking the DC out, but some men are horrifically selfish and want to carry on as before. OPs DH doesnt consider her needs or the needs of his DC-why would you carry on and have 3 DC with someone like this? Its not blaming , its common sense . You make the choice, either accept this is what hes like and do it anyway or stop at one and LTB. If he works 12 hours a day and you choose to SAH and do it all then why the anger? OP sounds horribly bitter and quite gleeful that these men will find out what its like. I doubt it, they will continue to ignore their DC and wives needs. Grim situation and not funny at all. And then we have endless threads about SAHM bashing Ultimately if their own DH dont value what they do then thats the main problem but the anger always gets taken out on other women who have made different choices.

@Templetreebloom

This thread must be like the Bermuda Triangle of "hands-on dads". (Have you ever heard that term in regards to women?) they all seem to land here.

A quick google will point out that even when both parents work women do most of the household work and that they and their husbands will perceive the men as doing more than they did. The way we perceive female characters as speaking more than they actually did. The likelyhood is that most of those women in health care did do most of the household admin and dealt with the schools and organized the shopping. One made hotodgs knowing the other parent would see to the kids not getting scurvy.

They also were more likely to organise their career to be "family-friendly". I think doctors were specifically mentioned in "Delusions of Gender" When it was a woman the family decided her job was easier to work around the kids, when it was a man his job was harder to work around the kids

Now obviously some of you will be correct, but I'm sorry if I believe statistics over anecdata.

Now a woman could decide to leave their partner after one child (or two if they come close together, it happens!) and try and find another partner to have a second child with but not many women want to ruin their child's lives over perceived laziness.

So how about instead of blaming women, we blame lazy ass men?

@karmakameleon

I guess it varies from person to person, doesn't it? I find work far more stressful, but there are so many variables - your own strengths and weaknesses, how challenging your job is, how challenging your kids are etc.

There’s more scope to change your job. If you find work stressful you can look for something else, retrain etc. You can hardly get new kids.

Ha! Not so easy when you can't afford to take a paycut because you don't want to stop your dc from having the opportunities that your current job is paying for. It is very, very easy to get trapped in a job that pays the bills but damages your mental health, particularly if your earnings are much higher than those of your partner.

It's so easy to be dismissive from the other side of the fence. I've been the sole breadwinner for extended periods, and I have also had extended periods at home with dc. For me, being the sole breadwinner was infinitely more stressful than the other as I felt that so much of my family's happiness was riding on my shoulders. I was desperately unhappy in my job but couldn't move without taking a significant cut in salary that would impact negatively on my family. My DH had no idea how difficult this was for me tbh, because I didn't talk about it.

I'm not saying that women have it easy at all. I'm well aware of the ongoing inequalities and the unfair burden that women often face with regard to juggling both work and domestic responsibilities. I see how few men in my team ask for flexible working so that they can pick up a share of the childcare. It's shit. However, I also see quite a lot of SAHPs/PT WOHPs being incredibly dismissive of the stresses that their primary breadwinner partner might be facing, assuming that work is a walk in the park etc, and frankly, that's shit too.

@GoldenOmber

I don’t know what your husband does, but if he always turns up promptly at 5pm to do potty training and the homework then I suspect it’s nothing it’s not massively world changing! In many fields - law, medicine, finance, running own business you seriously do have to put in more than 12 hours a day! You can’t run away from a busy A&e department to calm a toddler tantrum! You cant abandon a big negotiation as your partner needs some help with doing the kids homework!

Do any of these Very Important Men with Very Important Jobs have any female colleagues who also have kids, do you think? Or do all working mums just potter about for a bit of pin money?

I don’t ‘turn up promptly at 5pm’ every day either, but my children have two working parents and need someone to collect from school and childcare, someone to feed them, someone to help with homework, someone to change nappies and do baths and bedtimes etc etc etc. We make it work, like most parents in our position do.

That’s kind of my point..in most families, at least the ones I know, one parent will have the longer hours hardcore job, and the other will be around more to be flexible and do the pick ups and bath time and all that - generally the less well paid one. So that parent will obviously know much more about the stresses of juggling day to day childcare, whilst the other will be burdened with a more full on job. I mean I always see the same parent at pick up and school events etc. They might work but their job is less full on, obviously. I don’t know what it’s like to go off to work knowing I won’t be back before 10pm, and I don’t know what it’s like to go on holiday knowing I had to check emails multiple times a day. Likewise DH doesn’t know what it’s like to spend all day with 3 under 4s and not have a hot coffee..or lunch.. or what it’s like to actually attempt to be efficient with 3 children at your feet. Or what it’s like to run full pelt from work to nursery pick up in a panic! But..whilst frustrating, isn’t it just the way things are? We can’t spend all our time putting ourself in someone else’s shoes! We both have the interests of the family at the forefront at the end of the day.

That’s kind of my point..in most families, at least the ones I know, one parent will have the longer hours hardcore job, and the other will be around more to be flexible and do the pick ups and bath time and all that - generally the less well paid one

Not most of the ones I know - it’s either 2 working parents juggling, or one SAHP. So both parents know what it’s like to be sprinting from work to nursery because it’s a bit unfair for one parent to do all of that. The idea that if you are doing anything remotely important at work then you can’t possibly be doing the kids-and-housework stuff as well is not fair.

@AlexaShutUp

If you’ve seen both sides of the fence, you’re in a position to see what’s easier/harder. Everyone has a different perspective but at least you have real experience to base it on. Very few men have spent any significant time at home with small children, and yet they feel qualified to claim that being the one who goes to work is harder or at least as difficult. Most women will have worked before they had children, so they are in a far better position to make the call. All OP is saying is that being at home has given her DH another perspective and yet so many people are so dismissive.

Also, very few men are the sole breadwinner. Statistically most have a partner who works (maybe part time) and also picks up the slack at home. Most know that if the worst happens, their partner can usually go back to working full time so that should be a weight of their minds.