Pandemic dad having eyes opened

[AwakeAwake]

Men get paternity leave for first 2 weeks or month if lucky.
Babies usually just sleep and feed that first week or two.
Therefore men are getting a false sense of what it is to parent small baby.

My husband has never spent much time with tiny child until now working from home and new arrival in the house.
Previous children he's just been off a week, held a sleepy newborn and back to work when the real excitement kicks off.

Aibu to think that pandemic parents are getting a taste finally of how bloody challenging a baby is?
No longer can they escape to work for 12hrs and come home asking what you did all day. No longer can they pretend they don't see how hard a toddler is running riot I'm the house.

The washing, cleaning, nappies, activities, screaming, tantrums etc. All laid bare at last.

My husband genuinely looked surprised that a toddler has tantrums as he didn't see it with first, potty training doesn't just magically occur, food splatters everywhere and must be cleaned up. These are all new to him.

Paternity leave should be month 2.

@Lullaby88

I understand where u are coming from OP don't think men will ever fully understand. Might partially understand tho like some womens DHs unless thyre the SAHD on a year of pat leave then theyl live the life and know all about it.

Exactly. Unless they're the sahd on their own, they don't get it. Some will do a few hours and be delighted woth themselves that the baby is still alive. No food will have been made or cleared up, no laundry, housework or anything else.

I think of it a bit like having a dog, they think it'll be similar, feed it, pat, who's a good baby, sit playing PlayStation half the day.

Wow, everyone coming out of the woodwork to say how wonderful their husband is! Very supportive.
OP you are right, the Guardian even did an article about pandemic dads realising what it's really like.
FWIW my husband was able to take 4 months off with our first and he's still like this. Was hands on potty training, but someone still had to make sure the reward stickers for the sticker chart were bought, dirty clothes in the wash, techniques read and memorised etc etc

@ThedaBara

Wow, everyone coming out of the woodwork to say how wonderful their husband is! Very supportive. OP you are right, the Guardian even did an article about pandemic dads realising what it's really like. FWIW my husband was able to take 4 months off with our first and he's still like this. Was hands on potty training, but someone still had to make sure the reward stickers for the sticker chart were bought, dirty clothes in the wash, techniques read and memorised etc etc

I'm glad these posters have great husbands. But its not my experience of dad's as a whole. From friends to posters on here, most say they have no support, limited cursory support and are just supposed to be grateful if they get a shower.

I don't even bother asking now if I want to do anything, I just mirror my husband, I suggest all women sit for a week taking notes on their other half, then do exactly as they do. Just for shits and giggles.
So disappearing for baths and showers, yes.
Half an hour for a shit, ok then.
What's for dinner? Good question dh, what is it?
Just off out to.... excellent me too.
I can't do nights because you breastfeed. Ok dh, I can't do days because I'm up breastfeeding all night.
I now refer to myself looking after kids as 'babysitting' and mummy is doing child care today.

It's obviously a joke.
In reality I'm cleaning the house while juggling half a 5-a-side under 10s in the house.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/20/i-had-no-idea-about-the-hidden-labour-has-the-pandemic-changed-fatherhood-for-ever

One dad said... “Having an individual life has been completely obliterated,” he says, describing a recent attempt to have a shower during which his wife, Claire, their five-year-old son and their three-year-old daughter all ended up in the flat’s cramped bathroom, just watching him. “There’s been nowhere to go without your family following you around. They’re frustrating. They’re annoying. They don’t leave you alone. But there’ve been some really special moments.”

Ha so true. No personal space. If I'd said this to .y husband he would have just said something like close the door or just not understood the issue of having 24/7 interruptions to your life.
Now he sees it because I tell toddler to go see dad. And he has to do activities of daily living with a small critical and questioning observer.

I’ve actually experienced the “men’s role” during this pandemic and it was a complete eye opener!!

Husband off so doing the childcare/housework whilst I shut myself away in the office to work. He spent hours going through our youngest’s bedroom and sorting all the toys out, at around afternoon time I went upstairs and poked my head around the corner to see how he was getting on.
The room was a tip and it looked like he had done nothing, certainly not 4/5 hours worth of sorting so far!!! (But to be fair the room was a complete bomb site which is why it was taking so long, she has way too many toys!) But because it’s normally something I would do I know everything is everywhere, and all out as your sorting so piles are created, I also know it’s one of those “hidden jobs” that takes ages but if you didn’t know he “sorted the room” you would just think his “tidied it” and I know they are two COMPLETELY different things as I’ve done it myself.

I was standing there though and if I had been out the house like he normally is I wouldn’t have known he’d been at it for hours and I could clearly see how easy it was to overlook the time and effort that goes into something unless you already know about the time and effort it takes!!- it was absolutely amazing and soul destroying at the same time!

It was an eye opener for us both, standing there seeing the other persons side of view, we were both gobsmacked!!

Now he gets it though when I talk about hidden jobs! 😂

The problem here is when the working parent (usually the dad) opts out of actually taking a proper parenting role when they are home.

I have seen it with one women, whose husband is the sahd, but more that she didn't really think toddlers were difficult. But she just did bits here and there when she was home. The dad was the one doing the majority of parenting at weekends. But that's quite unusual, it's normally men.

My exh was an asshole, but he did equally parent when he was home. But then I also went back to work full time after mat leave with both of mine. So, he had to take on half. Yes I know some men still don't but he did, because that's how we arranged it.

We then split up and he turned into a not interested parent and he is off not really thinking about the kids. So I have been a single parent as well. I work in a very senior role. One big difference is between men and women is that women always can go home.

The men I work with wi often stay in the office, saying they can't leave. When they absolutely can. There's no difference in the work produced by men and women at work. We all produce roughly the same amount. But its always men that 'just can't leave'.

Some men do, men who want to get home and see their kids, women do. The MD and CEO also do. But quite a few men claim they can't. But that's a choice.

So yes, I do think being at home will have changed things for people who opt out of parenting and more see themselves as back up for when the default parent needs a break or do something without the children. Some may have even stepped it up. Some have tried to insist their families work I silence and or keep the kids to certain rooms.

But if they go back to the office, many will quickly forget and slip into old habits.

When his eldest went through potty training, a few years ago, Mullarkey managed to miss it. He came home from work one day and there it was, this massive new life skill that had been installed in his son’s life by somebody else. When his daughter went through the same phase, recently, Mullarkey was present. “It felt like I’d won something back,” he says.

This sums up how I feel with lots of skills.

Potty training was magical and just happened. Reading and writing are just learned also by just handing over a book and letting them just figure it out themselves the little geniuses.
Language and manners. Magic.
My husband sometimes has a tendency to take credit for the good behaviours or things learned. And anything crap is my lack if discipline and sloppy care through the day.

I think the problem is they your husband is either profoundly stupid, or displaying a deliberate learned helplessness to get out of having to do any proper parenting.

@AwakeAwake

When his eldest went through potty training, a few years ago, Mullarkey managed to miss it. He came home from work one day and there it was, this massive new life skill that had been installed in his son’s life by somebody else. When his daughter went through the same phase, recently, Mullarkey was present. “It felt like I’d won something back,” he says.

This sums up how I feel with lots of skills.

Potty training was magical and just happened. Reading and writing are just learned also by just handing over a book and letting them just figure it out themselves the little geniuses.
Language and manners. Magic.
My husband sometimes has a tendency to take credit for the good behaviours or things learned. And anything crap is my lack if discipline and sloppy care through the day.

As others have said.... A DH issue... . He must be incredibly cloth eared to not realise all the time /effort that goes into raising children

My DH was furloughed 3 weeks after DS was born so actually experienced those first few weeks/months properly compared to other 2 DDs where he was back at work after 2 weeks. It’s made him understand how hard it is much better and realise how hard it is to get things done with young DC.
He can’t work from home so unfortunately couldn’t continue to be quite so involved but it’s helped that I feel like he understand what my life is like

No, I know how difficult it is.

Although I'm not allowed to say not all men here.

I've done nights to give my mrs a break, I've done days to give my mrs a break.
I thought this would be the norm.

I also work 12hr shifts in a demanding job which are a fuck sight easier than looking after a baby/toddler/child.

So yeah, I think you need to upgrade your husband.

"My husband doesn't know how babies work. I think I'll have 3 of them with him"

This is a definite DH problem.

DH had 6 weeks paternity leave with all ours so had more of an idea than most.
He also did his share when he wasn’t at work even after going back. He never didn’t see it as his job, as they were his kids too.
Also, I told him how hard it was when he was at work and he believed me. Then at weekends he often took over while I got a break, because I’d told him how hard it was.

Both of my exes chose to visit there parents when they had the kids when they were younger rather than try and cope with the kids themselves something that I have to do day in day out ds only sees his dad for an hour right now so his dad is OK with driving around in his car for an hour he is 12 years old and this is the first time he is 1-1 with his dad

Its truly pathetic

Wow really shocked at the responses!!

Obviously if someone works most of the day away from home and doesn't see exactly what goes on then they won't know exactly what it is like. For a lot of men that is a privilege they have enjoyed for generations now. Some men are jerks about it and some can empathise and imagine what it is like.

So completely agree with you OP - now men who had no idea previously have definitely had their eyes opened!!

I'm so happy for all the posters who haven't experienced this but statistically women spend way more time caring for children even if they work as well.

"Couples’ responses to extra childcare demands during the pandemic demonstrate the same point. Mothers did more housework and childcare irrespective of their pre-lockdown relative pay. Lower-paid mothers did double the amount of housework and 41% more childcare than higher-paid fathers, while higher-paid mothers did 6% more housework and 22% more childcare than lower-paid fathers."

www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/mothers-more-likely-than-fathers-to-reduce-paid-work-even-when-they-earn-more

This is a DH not a man problem. And frankly such a generalisation is really unhelpful.

Why not both work and share the childcare load? My DH is fully hands on.

I understand you OP. I doubt even dads who help out when they get home and say they understand it, really do. It's the constant childcare plus managing a house and the mental load.

My DH often comes back from work and complains over little things not done e.g. a small puddle of water spilt on the floor that I've missed. He's at work 8-6 Mon to Fri and out from 10.30am on a Saturday til late playing sport. So he really only sees Sundays at home.

He has very little tolerance for normal young child behaviours like tantrums or making silly, repetitive sounds.

I take the odd Sunday, maybe 5-6 days a year, to see a friend and when I come back he either tells me how easy the day had been or complains about the kids behaviour. The house is always a tip when I come back, the washing up not done, no washing done, no house admin. He basically just watches the kids and that's easy. Or their behaviour is unreasonable. It's not, it's to be expected.

I don't think one day a week after you wife has been sorting the childcare and house for the other six days, can really show you what being a SAHP really entails.

Does your husband not have weekends, bank holidays and annual leave to observe his children? Or does he play pretend helpless then too?

DP worked 12-hour days for the first year of DD’s life. He was still aware of what a baby entailed, what with the weekends, holidays, evenings (crap sleeper), night wakings. And also having half a brain.

When I was a SAHM he never questioned what I’d done all day or what I spent money on. He knew it was hard work.

Was your husband not home at weekends? Or did your kids magically “behave” on weekends.

Yanbu. I've always thought paternity should be two months. At the very least it would allow the mum to recover and heal up.

I do think the first fortnight is a breeze. Paternity leave should be from weeks 8-10 when, if you are unlucky enough to have a baby with colic, they have hit fever pitch and you are on your knees.

My DH is self employed and took 4 days off when 1st DC was born, and 2 days when 2nd was born.
DS was into everything as a toddler always creating or finding trouble/'danger at any and every availability. I literally couldnt go to the loo on my own without wondering what mayhem might await. I was laughing the other day at what a nightmare he was, and DH said "oh he wasnt that bad'". He wasnt that bad for DH - he was out at work 12 hours a day!!
DD was an awful sleeper and even when she started school would regularly wake during the night. I went away for a few days when she was 5 and when I came back I asked how they'd been. DH said he was exhausted "because DD woke me up every night" he said it as if I would be surprised ... well duh, that's been my nights for the last 5 years!!