To think this is a ridiculous reason for DS to be put into isolation?

[varskudd]

DS(15) came home from school very annoyed yesterday, he said he was put into isolation for having a drawing on his hand/wrist. He got bored so he drew on his hand with a pen, but it's not just scribbles.

Apparently, he was told to go to the toilet and wash it off and he tried to but it wouldn't come off so they sent him to isolation. He tried to get it off at home and it wouldn't, I tried to this morning and it slightly faded but it's still there.

Aibu to think this is ridiculous?

A fact to ponder on

Dc are put in isolation booths as a deterent to being disruptive and for defying the 'engage to learn' strategy... In isolation you aren't enforced to do any work at all. They booths aren't manned by specific teachers.. Sheets are given out and are optional
.
My obviously in need of diagnosis ds was put in for 2 days for trivial shite. I removed him from the school and will be naming and shaming it to the trust after tomorrow.. The 'engage in learning' system has 53 pages for new teachers to remember..
Yet the symptoms of ADHD are a basic 8 short lines of info to look out for...
Do not accept this method if you suspect your dc needs any sort of extra support...

Spare kit?
In one of the schools I work in there are 1500 students. If even 5% of those don’t have a pen then that’s 75 pens per day.
75 phone calls home to find out why. 75 discussions to find out why they haven’t go a pen.

@Elisheva

Spare kit? In one of the schools I work in there are 1500 students. If even 5% of those don’t have a pen then that’s 75 pens per day. 75 phone calls home to find out why. 75 discussions to find out why they haven’t go a pen.

Now you’re deliberately being disingenuous. Obviously I wouldn’t be calling home to report a missing pen.

Does it have to be a teacher who calls home or follows up? Could it be a TA or support staff or key worker?

These stupid rules seem to be about control and territorial pissing rather than aiding an educational environment.

I'm more sympathetic to parents who might not have give a shit about schools if it is an echo about how they were treated in school. You will not support a child's learning if this is how you think this is a good way to treat children and families.

I understand the need to be ready to function in employment but this to be less on how to learn and interact in a workplace and more about how to accept bad treatment and work-grooming to be a drone. As an autistic person this is a fast tract to meltdown city.

My current DS1's school is an academy and it seems to be one of the better ones that actually tries to be a school but I'm watching it like a hawk if they change. My child's education is an N = 1 experiment but I'll pull him out in a heartbeat if they pull any of these stunts.

So what would you do about the missing pen?
I know it seems like I’m being disingenuous but in reality this takes up so much time in schools.
Dave arrives in class, he hasn’t got a pen. Teacher gives him pen
Next day Dave hasn’t got a pen, teacher has run out of spare pens because they never get returned.
Dave can’t do any work because he hasn’t got a pen.
Dave gets a detention
Mum won’t let Dave do the detention because he only forgot his pen.
Next lesson, Dave doesn’t have a pen. And nor does Barry, or Lucy.

@SparrowNest

Has anyone got any advise on how to avoid sending my kids to a school like this, or is it increasingly that they’re all like this? That Birbalsingh woman makes my blood run cold.

It sounds bonkers to me, and that Michaela school sounds awful, in every respect bar exam results.

My school (indpendent single sex grammar) was very strict compared to most, but would be a beacon of liberalism compared to most of the schools I read about on here.

Mind you, it may have been something to do with it being the "premissive" '60s.

I wonder what happens when people leave Michaela schools and actually have to do independent, critical thinking? Grades or not, that's then the wheels come off.

I take your point, Elisheva, I do. But sending Dave to isolation (where he still hasn’t got a pen?) and where nobody is going to talk to him isn’t going to teach him anything either. It isn’t going to fix the problem. It just means he’s not your problem any more and removes him from lessons where he might still engage in some learning. And tomorrow when he still hasn’t got a pen? Back to isolation? A week of isolation? A fixed term exclusion for “persistent breach of the rules”? And then what effect does this have on Dave’s life? Schools can fixed term exclude/suspend for 45 days. What is this doing to Dave? That’s my point. No I don’t have all the answers but isolation is not going to work.

Next day Dave hasn’t got a pen, teacher has run out of spare pens because they never get returned.

The teacher needs to remember to ask the students for the pens back at the end of the lesson. Yes it's annoying when a student doesn't have a pen, but it's not the end of the world. Giving a pen takes no longer than issuing a punishment. A detention for repeatedly coming to school without any pen is fair enough. An isolation for not having a particular colour pen on one occasion- not acceptable.

Lots of teachers just don’t like anything being on visible parts of your body like doodles etc, even if done in own time. I remember once being told I’d get blood poisoning

Who pays for all these pens!! The kids don’t give them back.

Isolation means that Dave and his attitude does not have an impact on the other 32 students in the class.
However in a competent school there should always be a system in place to identify and support Dave. This is where the liaising with parents, pastoral support, behaviour interventions should kick in.
Clear expectations for behaviour, appropriate sanctions and appropriate support.

I wonder what happens when people leave Michaela schools and actually have to do independent, critical thinking? Grades or not, that's then the wheels come off
That is pure speculation, since the students have not been in the workplace yet.
Why wouldn't Michaela students adapt well to their next stage in life? At least they have been taught to be super organized, to stay on task and to concentrate. All useful qualities in the world after school.
I have nothing but admiration for the Michaela approach, and I am hoping that many more schools will adopt it in time.

Clear expectations for behaviour, appropriate sanctions and appropriate support.

This I agree with. Isolation isn’t it!

Has anyone got any advise on how to avoid sending my kids to a school like this, or is it increasingly that they’re all like this? That Birbalsingh woman makes my blood run cold
If your children were to attend a school like Michaela, there is every chance that they would emerge knowing the difference between 'advice' and'advise.'

Why? Do people who go to Michaela not have autocorrect on their phone?

Ask if they use engage in learning. It is being started in another of our local schools come September.. Our current school has a fast turnover of staff. Now I know why. Must take a special type of teacher who leaves a dc in isolation for 6 hours. Plus the hour after for the detention that earned them the isolation initially..
At the last meeting before ds left his head of year showed no remorse in her expectation that ds 'serve' 18 hours in isolation over 3 days.
My older ds is a soldier and didn't endure that in his training days...

:25SeaPinks. Why? Do people who go to Michaela not have autocorrect on their phone?
I very much doubt that Michaela pupils are allowed phones in school. (Happy to be corrected on this).
My point is that the children there emerge with an education that enables them to distinguish between advice/ advise without needing technological help.

At the last meeting before ds left his head of year showed no remorse in her expectation that ds 'serve' 18 hours in isolation over 3 days. My older ds is a soldier and didn't endure that in his training days...

To be fair, 'isolation' in schools isn't solitary confinement! It's just a room. With a teacher and often multiple kids in it. Some children quite like being in there. Not that I'm defending it as a punishment for trivial misdemeanours.

To be fair, 'isolation' in schools isn't solitary confinement! It's just a room
Yes. Isn't it just the removal of an audience for their antics? Not exactly chokey.

@Elisheva

Can’t they learn with blue hands and arms? There’s no need for them to leave the lesson to wash. They’d stop doing it if it was ignored. Do you think they’re sitting there in silence turning themselves blue, or do you think they’re laughing and showing their mates? And what about the other kids in the class who want to learn but are constantly distracted and disrupted by stupid, petty behaviour which shouldn’t need to be punished but has to be because some students have such a poor attitude to learning. If kids stopped when a teacher said ‘Stop it’ then there really wouldn’t be a problem, but they don’t.

I'm with you @Elisheva, the amount of low level disruption in classes is absolutely dreadful. When DS was isolating and working online, I could hear what was going on in the classroom and it was horrifying how often the teacher had to pause the lesson to sort out some kid who wouldn't behave as required. I asked DS incredulously "Is it always like that?!" and some classes are. I could hear the same kids' names being called out by the teacher, so clearly repeat offenders (which DS confirmed). The problem I have with this is that DS can't cope with disruption (he has ASD) and is in the process of getting an EHCP, as his capacity for coping in school has just tanked... Junior school behaviour was fine, but secondary is another kettle of fish and it's becoming increasingly difficult for him to deal with it. If these kids don't want to learn, fine - I don't give a crap what that does to their prospects in life - but it pisses me off massively that they don't care about the impact of their behaviour on the kids who want to learn and the teachers who want to teach effectively!

That said, I do think some of the punishments imposed for trivial infractions seem unduly harsh, but if the school doesn't cover all bases then some kids will take the piss, and their parents will back them up. It's the same old story - the minority ruin it for the majority.

@GreyhoundG1rl

The bulky eventually pulled a knife on my ds in a classroom. They blamed my ds How?

The DHT said the boy said he brought the knife to school because he was scared of my ds

That's right - my ds who he was bullying.

It was just scrambling for anything to say because 2 weeks prior to this we had arranged to meet his HOY to discuss how to stop the bullying and when I turned up I was asked to go in alone at first and in the room were 5 members of slt who ambushed me and told me to remove ds if I didn't trust them.

I minuted the meeting and asked for any discrepancies to be corrected. They thought they were clever by simply relying "your opinions have been acknowledged".

2 weeks later this kid pulled a knife on my son in class.

They went into panic mode.

@MrsTWH

It wouldn’t be isolation. It would be here’s the spare kit. It would be let’s call home and find out why. It would be a discussion with the child about why they were avoiding x/y/z. It would depend on the kit they were missing. A pen - borrow one and get on with it. Missing ingredient for food tech - well if you haven’t got it, obviously you can’t do the practical. Missing PE kit every week - why are they avoiding it? Do they have kit? Is mum/dad in financial difficulty and can we use pupil premium to buy new kit?

It’s not rocket science in my opinion. How does removing them from the classroom address the underlying issues?

Again spot on.

Christ alive! Why was the other boy being protected, do you know?

@Lilypansy

:25SeaPinks. Why? Do people who go to Michaela not have autocorrect on their phone? I very much doubt that Michaela pupils are allowed phones in school. (Happy to be corrected on this). My point is that the children there emerge with an education that enables them to distinguish between advice/ advise without needing technological help.

It’s the technology that needs educating! Are you really expecting us to believe that autocorrect has never provided you with an incorrect (in context) spelling? What a pedantic and snarky post.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Christ alive! Why was the other boy being protected, do you know?

Because the school were crap and bullies.

Very much the stereotypical academy you hear about.

They gaslighted me terribly and refused to engage in his ehcp process because they didn't think he should have one.

We have no idea why they did what they did but 8 children with send ended up leaving in the space of 15 months.

Followed by the HT a few months later.