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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is a ridiculous reason for DS to be put into isolation?

211 replies

varskudd · 15/07/2021 11:13

DS(15) came home from school very annoyed yesterday, he said he was put into isolation for having a drawing on his hand/wrist. He got bored so he drew on his hand with a pen, but it's not just scribbles.

Apparently, he was told to go to the toilet and wash it off and he tried to but it wouldn't come off so they sent him to isolation. He tried to get it off at home and it wouldn't, I tried to this morning and it slightly faded but it's still there.

Aibu to think this is ridiculous?

OP posts:
RiotView · 15/07/2021 17:41

My school had similar ridiculous rules to some mentioned above.

It's crazy thinking back because I can't imagine ever being treated so badly in the workplace as we were in school. I don't really see what the point was either, all it did was cause us to not take the rules seriously because some of them were so petty

strawberrydonuts · 15/07/2021 17:42

Don't be one of those parents who goes to war with the school over something daft like this.

It's important for parents to be on the same side as the school when it comes to discipline or it sends your child mixed messages, and the next time the school try to impose another rule, they'll question it again.

For the sake of something like this, just go with it.

If they say your son is not to draw on his hand then that's not exactly a difficult thing to abide by. Just tell him not to do it again in future.

Blossomtoes · 15/07/2021 17:44

In my sisters school the kids have discovered that if you colour in your palm and then put hand gel on you can turn your whole arm blue. Then they have to leave the lesson to wash their hands and arms

Can’t they learn with blue hands and arms? There’s no need for them to leave the lesson to wash. They’d stop doing it if it was ignored.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 15/07/2021 17:45

It's important for parents to be on the same side as the school when it comes to discipline or it sends your child mixed messages, and the next time the school try to impose another rule, they'll question it again.

I'll absolutely support the school with sensible rules with clear rules behind them.

If they send my kid to isolation for having a hair bobble on their wrist, or forgetting a pen? Yeah, not so much. I definitely will not be on their side.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 15/07/2021 17:45

Clear reasons behind them that should say

LittleMG · 15/07/2021 17:48

It was definitely for something he said or his reaction to the teacher I would have thought

Elisheva · 15/07/2021 18:12

Can’t they learn with blue hands and arms? There’s no need for them to leave the lesson to wash. They’d stop doing it if it was ignored.
Do you think they’re sitting there in silence turning themselves blue, or do you think they’re laughing and showing their mates? And what about the other kids in the class who want to learn but are constantly distracted and disrupted by stupid, petty behaviour which shouldn’t need to be punished but has to be because some students have such a poor attitude to learning. If kids stopped when a teacher said ‘Stop it’ then there really wouldn’t be a problem, but they don’t.

varskudd · 15/07/2021 18:22

I haven't read all of the comments yet but I thought I'd update.

I got a call from his head of year asking if I was picking DS up from school and if I was found I come a bit earlier as he wanted to speak to me. When I got there he told me that DS was in his office as he was in isolation again today due to having a pen on his hand again but he wasn't sure why DS was put in isolation for it but it's not his rule.

But he told me he went into the isolation room to speak to a teacher and he noticed DS was crying so he spoke to him and DS told him he was told off for kicking the wall and if he does it again he'll be in isolation all next week (his last week before the summer holidays) as he was distracting everyone but he said he couldn't help it and his head of year asked if DS has ever been assessed for having ADHD or similar as his child has ADHD and he struggles to focus and does things to help him to.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMoonCup · 15/07/2021 18:23

@Blossomtoes

In my sisters school the kids have discovered that if you colour in your palm and then put hand gel on you can turn your whole arm blue. Then they have to leave the lesson to wash their hands and arms

Can’t they learn with blue hands and arms? There’s no need for them to leave the lesson to wash. They’d stop doing it if it was ignored.

It's more that the blue then transfers to the desks, the books, the paper, the computer keyboards (and somebody has to clean them), the walls/displays, the doorframes, the doorhandles, the clothes, other kids who don't want to look like they're in a reenactment of the failed Roman forays against the Scots and Picts, somebody will then find that they're allergic to the sanitiser and insists on going to medical because their arms are itchy, then the next one say 'I'm itchy, too!' and it spirals into trails of blue smeared across the school, kids complaining of burning arms and most likely a big, blue cock and balls scrawled on the wall just outside Reception.
itsgettingwierd · 15/07/2021 18:25

Schools have such ridiculous rules at times they make life harder for themselves!

My ds has autism. He use to wear a plastic band thing on his wrist which was red/green which he turned to show how he felt and also acted as something for him to twiddle as he had a history of self harm.

He also didn't tick his shirt in but you couldn't tell as it was under his blazer.

One day on the way to an exam the very authoritative deputy was behind the students and he stopped to hold the door for her. She saw the band and started telling him off. Then decided to do a full uniform inspection which included indoor g his blazer to check his shirt.

He tried to explain he had these reasonable adjustments and it was in his EHCP but she then shouted at him "for answering back".

He had a meltdown and missed the exam.

Luckily for me despite the odd member of staff this was actually a reasonable school who didn't try and justify the DH behaviour and apologised and arranged for him to do his exam another time.

The doddles on hands will not affect education. Sitting in isolation will.

NekoShiro · 15/07/2021 18:32

Some of these comments make me feel glad that I already finished school and wasn't reprimanded for the most pointless insignificant 'wrongdoings'

Blossomtoes · 15/07/2021 18:33

Blimey @NeverDropYourMoonCup, who knew?

MrsTWH · 15/07/2021 18:51

I really hope Elisheva isn’t a teacher.

The examples you’ve given - of the bobble causing low level disruption because the teacher has to stop and explain why they’ve broken the rules is utterly laughable. In that instance, can’t you understand that it’s the TEACHER disrupting the learning rather than the child? What possible need is there to start publicly shaming a child when they are otherwise engaged in the lesson but just writing with a different coloured pen? It is the Head Teacher that sets the ethos for a school and a zero tolerance policy works for nobody except possibly teachers with poor classroom management or poor relationships with their students.

Just have a green and red pen in your bag and a spare? Ok, what about the kids whose parents can’t afford it or who don’t give a shit whether their kids have the right kit? Let’s punish the child for their unfortunate circumstances! Why not simply remove that battle altogether, and the teacher has a couple of pen pots around the room where the kids know they can borrow one and get on with the work?

My teens are allowed to wear black Air Force Ones to school as part of uniform policy - weird, but there’s never been anarchy because of it!? A lot of uniform and hair policy is outright discriminatory. Boys and girls wearing different uniforms? Discriminatory. Afro hairstyles not allowed - discriminatory. Neither of these things have an affect on learning.

Nobody is suggesting at all that children should not behave or not take responsibility for their actions - of course they should. But let the sanction be a natural consequence of their actions and proportionate. Covered yourself in pen and missed the task? Well then obviously you’ll have to go and wash it off then stay behind after class to finish it. Punched someone in the playground? Well obviously we can’t let you out at lunchtime until you’ve proved you’re not a danger to other pupils and done some work around the reasons why you lashed out. Restorative practice, emotional literacy, these are the policies that work. Isolation, where they are sent to work in a cubicle and not allowed to interact with anyone all day) is disgusting - it is exclusion.

Do you know how many children in a class of 30 have had social care involvement or are not neurotypical? Do you understand what Adverse Childhood Events (ACEs) are and how they effect people? The bedrock to good learning for these pupils is good relationships with adults and mental well-being. Zero tolerance policies are traumatic and disproportionately disadvantage groups of pupils who have SEND, social care involvement, ethnic minorities, etc. School needs to be a protective factor for these pupils and not somewhere where they don’t feel safe. This should be mandatory training for school staff.

A good, trauma aware school only really needs two simple rules.

  1. Come to school ready to learn (right kit, right attitude).
  2. Treat yourself, others and property with respect at all times.

What else is there?!

MrsTWH · 15/07/2021 18:57

Oh and uniform policy should be for health and safety reasons - no open toe/open back/heeled shoes for example. They should foster a sense of belonging. They should not be a stick to beat a child with.

Hankunamatata · 15/07/2021 19:00

It looked like a tattoo?

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 15/07/2021 19:02

@Blossomtoes

Blimey *@NeverDropYourMoonCup*, who knew?
Anybody who has worked in a rather challenging school, I guess.

By the way, in that school, a significant number of kids would play up precisely because they preferred to go into isolation rather than General Pop. They liked the lack of distraction and quiet.

itsgettingwierd · 15/07/2021 19:07

@MrsTWH

I really hope Elisheva isn’t a teacher.

The examples you’ve given - of the bobble causing low level disruption because the teacher has to stop and explain why they’ve broken the rules is utterly laughable. In that instance, can’t you understand that it’s the TEACHER disrupting the learning rather than the child? What possible need is there to start publicly shaming a child when they are otherwise engaged in the lesson but just writing with a different coloured pen? It is the Head Teacher that sets the ethos for a school and a zero tolerance policy works for nobody except possibly teachers with poor classroom management or poor relationships with their students.

Just have a green and red pen in your bag and a spare? Ok, what about the kids whose parents can’t afford it or who don’t give a shit whether their kids have the right kit? Let’s punish the child for their unfortunate circumstances! Why not simply remove that battle altogether, and the teacher has a couple of pen pots around the room where the kids know they can borrow one and get on with the work?

My teens are allowed to wear black Air Force Ones to school as part of uniform policy - weird, but there’s never been anarchy because of it!? A lot of uniform and hair policy is outright discriminatory. Boys and girls wearing different uniforms? Discriminatory. Afro hairstyles not allowed - discriminatory. Neither of these things have an affect on learning.

Nobody is suggesting at all that children should not behave or not take responsibility for their actions - of course they should. But let the sanction be a natural consequence of their actions and proportionate. Covered yourself in pen and missed the task? Well then obviously you’ll have to go and wash it off then stay behind after class to finish it. Punched someone in the playground? Well obviously we can’t let you out at lunchtime until you’ve proved you’re not a danger to other pupils and done some work around the reasons why you lashed out. Restorative practice, emotional literacy, these are the policies that work. Isolation, where they are sent to work in a cubicle and not allowed to interact with anyone all day) is disgusting - it is exclusion.

Do you know how many children in a class of 30 have had social care involvement or are not neurotypical? Do you understand what Adverse Childhood Events (ACEs) are and how they effect people? The bedrock to good learning for these pupils is good relationships with adults and mental well-being. Zero tolerance policies are traumatic and disproportionately disadvantage groups of pupils who have SEND, social care involvement, ethnic minorities, etc. School needs to be a protective factor for these pupils and not somewhere where they don’t feel safe. This should be mandatory training for school staff.

A good, trauma aware school only really needs two simple rules.

  1. Come to school ready to learn (right kit, right attitude).
  2. Treat yourself, others and property with respect at all times.

What else is there?!

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Spot on.

My ds ended up leaving his first secondary because they broke down the relationship with him.

He has a disability.

One day a child who bullied him pinned him up against the wall by his neck. He couldn't break free so eventually stamped on his foot.

He was out in inclusion "for using violence".

We couldn't sort it because the school wouldn't move from "if a child is being bullied they must report it to an adult" and refused to answer "how can he twirl it to an adult when he's struggling for breath whilst being pinned against a wall".

They simply repeated the mantra "school rules are report".

We had reported, we continued to report. We called meetings in which they told me to remove ds if I didn't trust them.

The bulky eventually pulled a knife on my ds in a classroom. They blamed my ds Shock then refused to authorise his absense the following day for a GP appointment due to anxiety after suffering all this.

They reported me to EWO. Said I was making it up. Said it was mine and ds fault. Blah blah blah.

Da ended up under camhs and having intense support from victim support.

Elisheva · 15/07/2021 19:12

*1. Come to school ready to learn (right kit, right attitude).

  1. Treat yourself, others and property with respect at all times.*

And if the students don’t follow these rules?

GreyhoundG1rl · 15/07/2021 19:14

The bulky eventually pulled a knife on my ds in a classroom. They blamed my ds Shock
How?

Blossomtoes · 15/07/2021 19:15

@Elisheva

*1. Come to school ready to learn (right kit, right attitude).
  1. Treat yourself, others and property with respect at all times.*

And if the students don’t follow these rules?

If they can’t obey two simple rules, there’s not much point in introducing more, is there? It’s just setting them up to fail.
Elisheva · 15/07/2021 19:21

If they can’t obey two simple rules, there’s not much point in introducing more, is there? It’s just setting them up to fail.

Yes, but how are you going to get them to obey these ‘simple’ rules?
E.g. “Ready to learn - bring the right kit”
How do you get them to do this?

MrsTWH · 15/07/2021 19:21

@Elisheva

*1. Come to school ready to learn (right kit, right attitude).
  1. Treat yourself, others and property with respect at all times.*

And if the students don’t follow these rules?

Then as I said in my previous response, the natural, proportionate consequences should be applied and the school should actually try to unpick why that child is unable to follow the simple rules.
Elisheva · 15/07/2021 19:26

Just think about one of your rules - bring the right kit.
What would be your sanction for not bringing the right kit?

MrsTWH · 15/07/2021 19:31

It wouldn’t be isolation. It would be here’s the spare kit. It would be let’s call home and find out why. It would be a discussion with the child about why they were avoiding x/y/z. It would depend on the kit they were missing. A pen - borrow one and get on with it. Missing ingredient for food tech - well if you haven’t got it, obviously you can’t do the practical.
Missing PE kit every week - why are they avoiding it? Do they have kit? Is mum/dad in financial difficulty and can we use pupil premium to buy new kit?

It’s not rocket science in my opinion. How does removing them from the classroom address the underlying issues?

Blossomtoes · 15/07/2021 19:35

@MrsTWH

It wouldn’t be isolation. It would be here’s the spare kit. It would be let’s call home and find out why. It would be a discussion with the child about why they were avoiding x/y/z. It would depend on the kit they were missing. A pen - borrow one and get on with it. Missing ingredient for food tech - well if you haven’t got it, obviously you can’t do the practical. Missing PE kit every week - why are they avoiding it? Do they have kit? Is mum/dad in financial difficulty and can we use pupil premium to buy new kit?

It’s not rocket science in my opinion. How does removing them from the classroom address the underlying issues?

Far too sensible.