To my half siblings shouldn’t get 50% of my parent’s house?

[reannneeee]

Paternal half siblings. They are 20 and 22 years older than me. Their mum joint owns with their stepdad and she was better off after the divorce as he left her the house. Me and my full brother raised in social housing as my mum and dad always struggled for money.

My parents ended up expressing a wish to purchase their property with Right To Buy in my late teens. They had a fair amount saved up but nowhere near enough. The property is in a desirable area and I saw it as a steal to get it with the Right To Buy Discount, so I agreed to save up and then give the money to my parents to use to be able to use Right To Buy. I ended up providing about 75% of the money (it took a good few years and meant I spent bugger all on fun and delayed my own life events) used for it. My full sibling has a learning disability and can’t live independently. The deal between me, my mum and dad was if I helped them to be able to buy the house, once they go I could have it and use 25% of the money on supporting my brother. None of the house is mine legally but we knew it’d benefit me and my brother in future if I helped them buy it now.

This was a few years ago. DF has now decided to write a will, he isn’t ill but wants to in the event of a sudden death. He has decided he’d feel guilty doing the original plan and excluding his older children. He now wants us to have 25% of the house each. He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free. I’ve not expressed this to him but I’m quite annoyed. My mum was also the bigger contributor for their portion of the deposit out of the 2 of them. I also know that when they go, all of the care for DB will go on me. I’ve already been told I’ll be his power of attorney, will manage his money etc. My half siblings are significantly older with their own well established lives. Mum is upset as well but doesn’t want to rock the boat.

Aibu to think DF is being unfair?

I sacrificed a hell of a lot. Delayed my dream career at uni. Delayed moving out to be with a partner etc. Barely had a social life.

I worked my arse off to save for that house and missed life opportunities because I was thinking forward to the future and the future of DB and now DF has fucked me over.

I didn’t have a cat in hell’s chance of ever seeing the property ladder in my area otherwise.

[quote reannneeee]@MichelleScarn

I put £42k into that house. They put in bugger all.

It took years. I was lucky to be able to leave school into a job paying £16k.[/quote]
How many years did it take to save that amount, and how much was the house?

I would speak to a solicitor because what happens if the estate gets used up paying for care hike fees etc what would you do then?

Care home not hike

"That boat has sailed, although the op hasn't said yet how long ago this was. I suspect it's been a while."

Pretty sure it's still applicable, but obviously it's of more interest if it was applicable when Op's parent's applied & if she can show that she provided most of the deposit.

This should all be sorted before any deaths. The claim is one to be made NOW, not trust that anyone does the "right thing" in a will.

www.macfarlanes.com/what-we-think/in-depth/2020/presumption-of-advancement-gifts-to-adult-children/

www.inbrief.co.uk/property-law/presumption-of-advancement-relationships/

This is the UK rules but its based on case law and trust principles, not actually a law.
The articles are mostly saying about doing away with the concept that it would be a gift if done parents to child, as with anyone else, its assumed, Unless CLEAR EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY (ie them saying IT IS A GIFT in writing) that its not a gift, but an intention to get a share in the property

That is talking about the transfer of a property ie father signs the title deeds of a house to his child, potentially as a way to avoid inheritance tax.

It has nothing to do with a gift/loan of money to enable someone to buy a house.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

'Rent free'? You owned the fucking house. He should be paying you back rent. And I'd tell him that, too.

She paid £42k towards a house valued at £300k at the time of purchase. They got a discount because they’d lived there many years - and paid rent during that time. We don’t know what the actual cost of the house was.

@reannneeee

I sacrificed a hell of a lot. Delayed my dream career at uni. Delayed moving out to be with a partner etc. Barely had a social life.

I worked my arse off to save for that house and missed life opportunities because I was thinking forward to the future and the future of DB and now DF has fucked me over.

I didn’t have a cat in hell’s chance of ever seeing the property ladder in my area otherwise.

Why would you do all that, to help your parents buy their council house? If you could save £42k on £16k pa (how??), your parents could surely have done it themselves.

DF won’t even consider giving me the 42k back and then splitting the rest 25% each because it’s not fair on half-sibs apparently.

@GreyhoundG1rl.

My parents had bills and debt to pay off! They saved what the could.

I had nothing to pay except car expenses.

Oh and they had rent

I would tend to save £1000 a month.

The house is in a really desirable area. It seemed like a no-brainer at the time.

@knittingaddict

*www.macfarlanes.com/what-we-think/in-depth/2020/presumption-of-advancement-gifts-to-adult-children/*

www.inbrief.co.uk/property-law/presumption-of-advancement-relationships/

This is the UK rules but its based on case law and trust principles, not actually a law.
The articles are mostly saying about doing away with the concept that it would be a gift if done parents to child, as with anyone else, its assumed, Unless CLEAR EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY (ie them saying IT IS A GIFT in writing) that its not a gift, but an intention to get a share in the property

That is talking about the transfer of a property ie father signs the title deeds of a house to his child, potentially as a way to avoid inheritance tax.

It has nothing to do with a gift/loan of money to enable someone to buy a house.

When the link says "property" it means any asset - money/or a house

Per the link, It displaces the presumption of resulting trust, which states that where one person transfers property to another without getting anything in return, the transferee is taken to hold that property on resulting trust on behalf of the transferor, unless there is evidence that it was meant to be a gift.

So if you paid £42k Op, what did your parents pay?

The rest of the deposit plus a mortgage for the rest?

I hope that you manage to officially register that you paid 3/4 of the deposit & have an interest in the house.

You will need to get a solicitor OP. Presumably you have proof that you lent your parents £42k. You need to register a charge against the house to get that money back. After you are repaid then fair enough the house can be split four ways.

When the link says "property" it means any asset - money/or a house

Per the link, It displaces the presumption of resulting trust, which states that where one person transfers property to another without getting anything in return, the transferee is taken to hold that property on resulting trust on behalf of the transferor, unless there is evidence that it was meant to be a gift

So why when people lend money to family members and don't get it back, is there the necessity to have a paper trail expresssly saying it was a loan and not a gift?

I will read the links again.

Generally, people would have to say it was a loan/gift. that's why the building societies ask about deposits and sources and make gifters confirm in writing - it's to avoid precisely this situation!

Mostly, it would be parents lending to kids, where its presumed its a gift mostly. Anyone else its assumed its a loan unless you say its a gift.

(and ignoring small sums of money given for birthday presents, most times people transfer money they should keep a record of the amount/intention for Inheritance tax purposes anyway) .

It would be strange to just transfer a large sum to someone else without some correspondence (congrats on your wedding, here is 5k, or "i am lending you £5k to be repaid when xyz)

@reannneeee

DF won’t even consider giving me the 42k back and then splitting the rest 25% each because it’s not fair on half-sibs apparently.

It was YOUR money! Insane. Your mother needs to stick up for you here.

OP. 42k is A LOT of money. If you hadn't given them that, you would have had a deposit for a place of your own, and be paying off your own mortgage now.

Your hurt and sense of being wronged is completely understandable. People have suggested you see a solicitor with evidence of you paying the deposit. Will you do that?
I have no idea if RTB has restrictions on who can provide the deposit, but it is morally wrong for your dad to do this, IMO.

@RincewindsHat
The op has said she saved up about £1k a month (although how she did that on a salary of £16k I don’t know) and gave her parents £42K. That would take her 3.5 years. She says she gave up going to university, took years to save up the deposit, lived rent red with her parents for years, didn’t move in with her boyfriend for years and so on. That was entirely her choice to do so. She says she did it to ensure her db, who is not able to live independently, will be looked father when her parents can no longer do so. However, she also says the money should be split 75/25 between her and her brother.
So, she lived with them for many years rent free so they were blue to get a mortgage on a property that could be worth half a million by now, paid them £42k and wants around £400k off them. Sounds slightly grabby to me!

@soontobe60 you must be one of the OP's parents! It's not grabby, it's how asset appreciation works. The £42k was not a gift. It was an investment on the OP's part with the understanding she would eventually inherit 75% of the property. If that had not been the case, the money would not have been handed over. Her father is the grabby ungrateful one here.

[quote RincewindsHat]@soontobe60 you must be one of the OP's parents! It's not grabby, it's how asset appreciation works. The £42k was not a gift. It was an investment on the OP's part with the understanding she would eventually inherit 75% of the property. If that had not been the case, the money would not have been handed over. Her father is the grabby ungrateful one here.[/quote]
But the 42k went towards the deposit, it wasn't 75% of the house's value.
Who paid the mortgage, op?

Yes I know technically could have got my own mortgage and saved for that but my area is ridiculous and with the RTB discount taken off my parents house I could have gotten maybe a 1 bed flat for the same amount.

Did you do it for them or for yourself though? Sure yo you knew you were taking a risk and you never inherit?