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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To my half siblings shouldn’t get 50% of my parent’s house?

282 replies

reannneeee · 15/07/2021 01:06

Paternal half siblings. They are 20 and 22 years older than me. Their mum joint owns with their stepdad and she was better off after the divorce as he left her the house. Me and my full brother raised in social housing as my mum and dad always struggled for money.

My parents ended up expressing a wish to purchase their property with Right To Buy in my late teens. They had a fair amount saved up but nowhere near enough. The property is in a desirable area and I saw it as a steal to get it with the Right To Buy Discount, so I agreed to save up and then give the money to my parents to use to be able to use Right To Buy. I ended up providing about 75% of the money (it took a good few years and meant I spent bugger all on fun and delayed my own life events) used for it. My full sibling has a learning disability and can’t live independently. The deal between me, my mum and dad was if I helped them to be able to buy the house, once they go I could have it and use 25% of the money on supporting my brother. None of the house is mine legally but we knew it’d benefit me and my brother in future if I helped them buy it now.

This was a few years ago. DF has now decided to write a will, he isn’t ill but wants to in the event of a sudden death. He has decided he’d feel guilty doing the original plan and excluding his older children. He now wants us to have 25% of the house each. He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free. I’ve not expressed this to him but I’m quite annoyed. My mum was also the bigger contributor for their portion of the deposit out of the 2 of them. I also know that when they go, all of the care for DB will go on me. I’ve already been told I’ll be his power of attorney, will manage his money etc. My half siblings are significantly older with their own well established lives. Mum is upset as well but doesn’t want to rock the boat.

Aibu to think DF is being unfair?

OP posts:

Mummyoflittledragon · 15/07/2021 10:57

@mm8989

Completely unfair to you. The more I think about it the more outrageous it gets. Who asks their child to stump up the cost of the house (more or less)\---- ---

she paid 75% of the DEPOSIT not the house, it may have only been 3 K

Yes it may have only been 3 k. But at the time the house may only have been 15 k. It was on a right to buy… Anyway that would represent 1/3 of the price of the house. If for example it’s now worth 300k, op’s investment is worth 100k and that is what she should have now as she was deprived of being able to use those funds to buy herself a property.

So 3k donkeys years ago or whatever the figure op invested is not the issue.

IAmWomxxnHearMeRoar · 15/07/2021 10:57

@mm8989 @knittingaddict
She says she skimped for years so the deposit she stumped up can't have been trivial.
I'd like to know why the much older half siblings who are financially sorted did not stump this money up. And if they didn't - and easily could have done unlike OP - well, why should they get anything now?

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/07/2021 10:59

@Orf1abc

You abused the RTB scheme so you could increase your inheritance, is that right?

The reason you don't have a legal interest in the property is because you didn't have the right to buy it, only your parents did.

You could argue that they owe you the money you loaned them, but you'd need to document that it was a loan and not a gift.

That's horseshit. RTB tenants are perfectly entitled to borrow to buy. What's the moral difference between borrowing from a relative vs borrowing from a bank?

mm8989 · 15/07/2021 11:01

f for example it’s now worth 300k, op’s investment is worth 100k and that is what she should have now.
----
that's not 75% of the house though is it???

Souther · 15/07/2021 11:02

It's his will,.he is entitled to leave it as he wishes unfortunately.

The no ly thing you can do is, if you feel you have a legal stake to get legal advice ASAP.

But it's his will he can do what he wants.

SMabbutt · 15/07/2021 11:11

Have you pointed outvto him that if it hadn't been a private arrangement for family and you had done it via solicitors you would own 75% of the property. Therefore you wouldn't need to pay rent. If anything it would be them paying you rent. All you want is to have your proper share ie the equivalent % value you paid towards the property. What they do with their 25% share in their wills after that is up to them. Perhaps ask for a transfer now with you added to the deeds. It would be helpful to get something in writing from him explaining what happened in the past and why he thinks it's fair to change the agreement now. Perhaps say you are putting your thoughts in writing and would appreciate him doing the same so you can understand each other point of view. It may mean a bit of effort to get this but you need some evidence.

Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 11:12

That's horseshit. RTB tenants are perfectly entitled to borrow to buy. What's the moral difference between borrowing from a relative vs borrowing from a bank?

Well done you've proved the argument perfectly. The bank isn't owed all the profit, just repayment of their loan.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 11:13

[quote IAmWomxxnHearMeRoar]**@mm8989* @knittingaddict*
She says she skimped for years so the deposit she stumped up can't have been trivial.
I'd like to know why the much older half siblings who are financially sorted did not stump this money up. And if they didn't - and easily could have done unlike OP - well, why should they get anything now?[/quote]
That means nothing as some people take ages to save quite small amounts. Until the op comes back and expands on the information they have given we can't tell. We don't know how much the amount was, what the house was worth, what it's worth now or how long ago this happened. I'm not holding my breath though.

All I do know is that the op was naive, ill advised and legally there is nothing they can do. Morally I think the father should leave them the deposit amount plus a share, but that may be irrelevant if there's no house to leave.

honeylulu · 15/07/2021 11:19

Yes OP's beneficial share will depend on what she actually contributed. I have to say I originally read it as if she had paid 75% of the purchase price. 75% of the deposit is likely to be a much lower sum.

If it was just the deposit then it sounds like the rest of the funds were provided by the parents (mainly the mother) in the form of 25% of the rest of the deposit and the remainder covered by a mortgage, the payments for which the OP didn't contribute to. Also, is the mortgage now paid off or not?

The figures need to be set out in order to consider what OP's rightful beneficial share is. If she paid 75% of the purchase price then arguably it is 75% of the current value (after a deduction for whatever is still owing for the mortgage).

if she contributed towards deposit only and (say) deposit was 10% of purchase price in total then her beneficial share is 7.5% (75% of 10%).

Depending on the amount it may or may not be worthwhile incurring legal fees.

OP whatever the position I suspect that if your Dad does concede anything he will try and argue that all that is "yours" is the ringfenced amount of what you actually paid. You should argue that as the house has gained in equity you are actually entitled to a percentage share according to the proportion you put in. Otherwise you would have been better off putting the funds into investments, pension etc. Though the rent free years you spent there also have some value ... as I said in my earlier post it will likely come down to what was agreed and if you have evidence that supports that.

ElevenOhFive · 15/07/2021 11:19

OP, you absolutely should speak to a solicitor about this, and ensure that it is someone who is suitably knowledgeable and experienced to deal with the specific issues. Do some research to find the right lawyer to take this on. (I would I also caution you against relying on some of the frighteningly detailed and confidently asserted advice on this thread from non-professionals - like other PPs, I am a solicitor myself but in a completely different area of law, and probably a different UK jurisdiction, and so I wouldn’t even dream of trying to advise on the finer details of this situation.)

However, as has been said the fact that you provided 75% of the funds in good faith means that you do at least have a case to make about a possible stake in the property. That is your starting point. However it is unlikely to be just as straightforward as you being entitled to precisely 75% of the property, and many other factors such as eg increased property values, your living there for a period of time, contributions and enhancements to the property made by your parents, the understanding and expectations of all parties at the time, your/their ability to evidence all of that etc etc will all need to be considered. (A solicitor will need to take a very detailed history of the circumstances, and understandably it isn’t possible for you to provide that here - which is exactly why any specific advice given here shouldn’t be relied upon, none of us know the full story.)

Various scenarios could arise in the future around death or mental incapacity of your parents or the need for long term residential nursing care, and so it is crucial to have it resolved now through the appropriate channels, rather than in say 10 years’ time when all sorts of additional developments and interested parties (your half siblings, if your father dies or a health authority looking to recoup residential care charges) will make it much more difficult and costly to resolve.

So I would I speak to both your parents about it to make your position clear and to state what you would like them to do to ensure that your substantial financial contribution is protected for your benefit in the future. Even if they are willing to honour that, all parties will still need legal advice to facilitate it. I suspect from what you have said, your father at least may be unwilling to entertain your wishes, in which case you will have made reasonable efforts to find a resolution and you should then seek legal advice without delay.

Good luck OP.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 11:24

The op wouldn't have mentioned that his mum paid the majority of the parent's share of the deposit if they were actually talking about the 25% share of the house left to pay. If the op paid for 75% of the whole house then there would be no share of the deposit for the parents to pay at all.

mm8989 · 15/07/2021 11:24

@ElevenOhFive

I hope you spend more time reading your case notes! read the thread.😁

BestZebbie · 15/07/2021 11:25

If you paid 75% of the house and they paid 25%, they should be feeling lucky that they have been allowed to live rent free in your house, not the other way around!

Soontobe60 · 15/07/2021 11:26

How much deposit did you provide out of the total deposit? Also, how long have you lived there rent free since you started saving for the deposit?

Jux · 15/07/2021 11:29

Tell him how you feel. Tell him you saved for years and stinted yourself in order to give them the money; remind him the house is your mum's too.

Ask him if the house that he left with his ex-wife, which will presumably go to her kids (his kids!) will be shared with you and your brother? Fair's fair, after all.

ElevenOhFive · 15/07/2021 11:46

[quote mm8989]@ElevenOhFive

I hope you spend more time reading your case notes! read the thread.😁[/quote]
I have read the thread, and posted on the basis of the information the OP has given here - which may or may not be sufficiently clear as it stands and is a fraction of the detail required by any lawyer she might instruct.

Reading the thread and the various assumptions made by other posters about the specific details of the OP’s contribution and wider circumstances does not alter what I have suggested to her - I tend to spend more time reading the relevant information in my cases and not waste time on extraneous detail

mm8989 · 15/07/2021 11:48

deposit! 75% of deposit! important detail!

Doodlebug71 · 15/07/2021 11:51

You provided 75% of the funds to buy the house he's living in, and he has the gall to mention you renting?

Christ on a bike. YANBU at all. He is.

blubberyboo · 15/07/2021 11:52

As others have said you could have a clear case that you are owed monies from the house and rather than living rent free the arrangement has prevented you from owning your own property.
Defo speak to solicitor about getting an order charging land. The courts may order him to pay you back a certain share.

And make clear to DF that your brother could end up homeless and you won’t be responsible for sorting him out again as you understood that you were investing into a permanent home for you both not for your half siblings.

GreyhoundG1rl · 15/07/2021 11:56

[quote mm8989]@ChargingBuck

she ONLY paid 75% of the deposit! not the full purchase price.[/quote]
Is this true, op? It puts a slightly different complexion on things...

AquaTorfana · 15/07/2021 12:12

You can ringfence the deposit as other posters have said. I don't know how much that is in relation to the total value of the property now but you need to contact a solicitor with all the details you have and evidence of your contribution to be sure. It's very easy to give advice online based on the limited information we have but the reality can be somewhat different. Only a lawyer can tell you.

Bollindger · 15/07/2021 12:54

If you have a papertrail of the amount, get your mum to agree in writting and put a charge on the house.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 13:44

You can't just ringfence the money or put a charge on a house without evidence of this being a loan. It appears to be a gift and will be treated as such. Honestly are people just saying what they want to be true, rather than what is the legal reality?

This could all have happened 20 years ago for all the imformation the op has given. In any case the op doesn't seem so keen in the cold light of day, do they?

Original poster

reannneeee · 15/07/2021 13:50

Yes I provided the money for the deposit. There is still a mortgage.

Even with that in mind, I put a substantial amount of money into the house and don’t see how 25% each is even remotely fair.

OP posts:

SmokeyDevil · 15/07/2021 13:51

@knittingaddict

This could all have happened 20 years ago for all the imformation the op has given. In any case the op doesn't seem so keen in the cold light of day, do they?

Think you can still ring fence a gift. I'm just not sure you can do it after the sale has gone through. Kind of missed your chance then surely?

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