So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

I honestly wonder what motivates that type of bile.

@Serenissima123

I have a lot of Italian friends, lived in Italy for a year and speak the language (I'm an Italian>English translator). I also have three black friends who live in Italy. The racism in Italy makes England look like an absolute utopia. If you are black and live in Italy, it doesn't matter how many years you've lived there or how well you speak Italian, you will always be treated like a foreigner who has just got off a dinghy from Africa. When my black Italian friend came to visit me in the UK, they couldn't believe how much better they were treated here, and how normal it felt to be black in Britain.

My 2 pence.

Please read this those 'embarrassed' to be English.

@Legomania

Oh op get over yourself. By all means be angry at the scum that behave like that but this self-flagellating is just tedious.

Racism is also "tedious" for black people. FYI @Legomania

'Is this a paste from the link or you writing? Blimey talk about insulting people you’re doing a very good job if so'

It is incredible isn't it. Why tf would anyone rightly complain about hate yet then may sweeping statements (or link them) targeting people based on the colour of their skin!

There is a racist in us all.
Until we accept that, we'll never address it.

It’s really ugly stuff more like Twitter etc than here

Depressing the direction it takes

Anyway I’m with you Janiie, will focus on Marcus Rashford response and improving in other ways not diatribes like that

Some good people coming together instead

Every single person condemns racism.
No they don't. What you condemned and I quote is ..."What I resent bitterly is the accusation that being white automatically makes me complacent and racist."

That's not resenting racism at all. It's about you and your feelings of feeling challenged about not doing enough to stop racism. That's different.

We've had 30 years to fix this problem so under no circumstances is this a British success story.

Why do we prefer to shoot the messenger and not fix this? Because we all benefit from racism even if we're poor and can't see it. We just cannot admit to it.

Truth is many of like things just the way they are. That's why we need our White fragility. Read it.

robindiangelo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/zeit-campus-transcript.pdf

@JaniieJones

'Recognising issues with institutional racism and wanting to address those issues is not, as you've also frequently been informed, xenophobia'

Oh I'm sorry I thought this thread was called 'embarrassed to be English' with lots of generalised English hating bile and vitriolic crap. Which is xenophobia sorry if I'm boring you.

Now off you pop and start a thread discussing institutionalised racism and please include the bit about how white boys on fsm have the worst outcome, the educational institution is that racist.

@JaniieJones - funny that you mention fsm (family school meals I assume) when one of the footballers being abused literally supported the very same campaign.

So myopic.

[quote jskei]Every single person condemns racism.
No they don't. What you condemned and I quote is ..."What I resent bitterly is the accusation that being white automatically makes me complacent and racist."

That's not resenting racism at all. It's about you and your feelings of feeling challenged about not doing enough to stop racism. That's different.

We've had 30 years to fix this problem so under no circumstances is this a British success story.

Why do we prefer to shoot the messenger and not fix this? Because we all benefit from racism even if we're poor and can't see it. We just cannot admit to it.

Truth is many of like things just the way they are. That's why we need our White fragility. Read it.

robindiangelo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/zeit-campus-transcript.pdf[/quote]
👏👏👏👏

'That's not resenting racism at all. It's about you and your feelings of feeling challenged about not doing enough to stop racism. That's different.'

What?

I'll say it again. We all should condemn racism and we have. We do not need to be ashamed or embarrassed becasue of the thuggish behaviour of a minority just because we are also English.

Racism isn't always the motive behind racist messages.
Shock value is a huge driver for an awful of keyboard warriors. They aren't always racists, or sexists... what they are is provocative attention seekers who use whatever abhorrent post they can to satisfy their perverse need for attention.

Many of these people would just as easily comments about rape, or the disabled, or genocide, purely because of the ultra provocative nature.

That's not to condone what's said, but it's understand the motivations behind some of these posters.

'funny that you mention fsm (family school meals I assume) when one of the footballers being abused literally supported the very same campaign'

Free school meals.

Is it 'funny', really? When a pp went on about institutionalised racism and I inconveniently pointed out the outcome of white boys on fsm is the worst. Wtf is funny about that?

So at least we do know the institution that is education clearly is not racist.

DoItAfraid

*Legomania

Oh op get over yourself. By all means be angry at the scum that behave like that but this self-flagellating is just tedious.*

Racism is also "tedious" for black people. FYI @Legomania

Well yes @DoItAfraid, that's why I said 'scum'. (Hundreds of posts back, in response to the specific behaviour mentioned in the op)

We do not need to be ashamed or embarrassed becasue of the thuggish behaviour of a minority just because we are also English.

I quote from the link I posted because it applies to you with your "bitter resentment" that you yourself claimed.

For a lot of white people, just suggesting that being white (English) has meaning will trigger a deep, defensive response. And that defensiveness serves to maintain both our comfort and our positions in a racially inequitable society from which we benefit.

Getting it yet?

I thought Robin DiAngelo had been cancelled. She probably doesn’t care at this point as she has made so much money from it all. Interesting to see her still being referred to though.

What is the thirty years referring to?

'Getting it yet?'

Nope. You seem to be making sweeping negative generalisations based on the colour of people's skin which ironically makes you a xenophobe and/or racist. HTH.

‘For a lot of white people, just suggesting that being white (English) has meaning will trigger a deep, defensive response.’

Of course being English has meaning. It refers to a geographical location and the culture associated with it, and of course a language!

Not sure why you think people would be upset by the idea that English has a meaning.

What is the thirty years referring to?

30yrs is how long we've been seeing racial violence against black British football players and it still hasn't stopped.

Time's up wouldn't you say? !

@jskei

What is the thirty years referring to?

30yrs is how long we've been seeing racial violence against black British football players and it still hasn't stopped.

Time's up wouldn't you say? !

Really?

So in the 1970s there was no racism against black British footballers?

Are you sure?

'30yrs is how long we've been seeing racial violence against black British football players and it still hasn't stopped.'

Have you seen the widespread support of the players? Have you seen the comments from public figures condemning it?!

Honestly anyone would think we were all saying ah who cares.

@IcedPurple

Your point? That British racism on football terraces has been going on 50 years and not 30 years?

Accepted !

England has always been a crazy hotch potch( Romani) and only a few disenfranchised gammons ruining it.
The tide is turning.
Where I am communities have thrived side by side for generations but that's not newsworthy is it?

Agree time should be up.

For all racism. Black footballers being racially abused is rightly being called out. Where is the same (justifiable) outrage for the Jewish victims of racial assault.

This incident below saw a Jewish man racially assaulted in London. The attackers included a group of football fans. Where is the condemnation from the FA and high profile celebrities?

Racism can't be effectively tackled unless all of it is called out.

www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/ill-slit-your-throat-man-20968732.amp

‘For a lot of white people, just suggesting that being white (English) has meaning will trigger a deep, defensive response.’

Change 'white' or 'English' for black and can you not see how offensive this crap is?