So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

HmmmmmmInteresting

lllllllllll

Is anyone else watching Newsnight? I think they just said that the vast majority of the social media accounts they analysed which sent this awful racist abuse were actually from outside the UK.

Via VPN most likely. I live in California according to my vpn

An investigation by tech can tell if someone is using a VPN. They might not be able to tell where from, but can tell its VPN

Newsnight looked at 105 posts, 32 were not identified (VPN?), 9 had been deleted, 59 were from abroad (I assume no VPN ) , 5 were from the UK (I assume no VPN)

You should be embarrassed. Here's what the Indian news thinks of you twitter.com/Iblogtoglasgow/status/1414974002246922242?s=19

Wait til someone tells them you're trying to pin the racist abuse on them...

HmmmmmmInteresting

It's from a Newsnight report last night on findings by The Centre for Countering Digital Hate.

BTW can you stop hurling personal insults at me. If you have a problem with the findings, that most of the abuse comes from abroad, take it up with organisations I've been quoting on this subject.

1. The Premiership investigation into racial abuse of their players
2. The Centre for Countering Digital Hate

Oh no, have the facts upset the xenophobic narrative that only English fans are racist?!

Thugs around the world generally have something in common. Cock and balls

Some of the videos I've seen are mind blowing. Blokes putting rocket up each other's arsed and setting it alight in the middle of crowded Wembley

@lllllllllll

Yes, probably via VPN or Proxy.

I’m not technical at all - does that mean these racists could be within the UK but using some sort of device to make it look like they’re not?

Yes, I use a VPN to access content not available in the UK, so if my internet use was investigated it would look like I am posting from the US.

Why do people believe everything they see on the internet? Is it conformation bias or something?

Yes, I use a VPN to access content not available in the UK, so if my internet use was investigated it would look like I am posting from the US.

Buy it would also show that you're using a VPN

More from "Mark Robinson"..."England fan"

@Flaxmeadow

Yes, I use a VPN to access content not available in the UK, so if my internet use was investigated it would look like I am posting from the US.

Buy it would also show that you're using a VPN

Only because you have a single IP rather than a changing one, but they still can’t trace where you are, nor can they trace what country you’re in.

We use a VPN for work which is UK based, this is because the majority of our business is carried out in the UK, but a great number of our staff are not UK based, it also makes temporarily working abroad easier.

Only because you have a single IP rather than a changing one, but they still can’t trace where you are, nor can they trace what country you’re in.

Hence this post I made earlier, my brackets

Newsnight looked at 105 posts, 32 were not identified (VPN?), 9 had been deleted, 59 were from abroad (I assume no VPN ) , 5 were from the UK (I assume no VPN)

@Flaxmeadow

Only because you have a single IP rather than a changing one, but they still can’t trace where you are, nor can they trace what country you’re in.

Hence this post I made earlier, my brackets

Newsnight looked at 105 posts, 32 were not identified (VPN?), 9 had been deleted, 59 were from abroad (I assume no VPN ) , 5 were from the UK (I assume no VPN)

Probably too many assumptions there. Some might have been via cellphone, some might be remote access desktop... it is a bit of a nightmare if someone really doesn't want to get caught.

However, some knuckledraggers will post regardless.

The thing is, if you look at the "Mark Robinson" from Twitter images I posted, and as far as I know he is still active, he only gets attention as soon as he starts posting, or posing, as a racist England fan.

There are some very strange people out there, in every country in the world, and he appears to more likely be Somalian. But who knows? The replies under his England persona are mostly believing his tweets, even though, as you look further he is a lithe definition of a troll, or even bot or even an automated bot. He could be Somali, he could be Indian or Russian or Chinese.

When there are high profile news stories, the trolls come out , worldwide

"Mark" could even be a woman!

@jskei

Is the 38% rise in domestic violence when England lose is that also done by bots outside of England ?

Thank you!! That's the central point ... those on here who don't give a crap about racism the "few bad apples ..don't criticise my country mob" don't get they may not face racism but they or their kids can face domestic abuse. They're the same thugs.

This thread is about feeling ashamed

So you’d like women, those who are the victims of abuse, to feel ashamed for actions of attackers. Why?

Mark" could even be a woman!

Could be, although probably unlikely! Regardless of nationality, religion or skin colour, most of the world’s ills are perpetuated by men.

Could be, although probably unlikely! Regardless of nationality, religion or skin colour, most of the world’s ills are perpetuated by men.

I agree but it could also be a woman employed by a click or troll farm for pennies, who needs the money to feed her children, and doesn't care what's gets posted and clicked

...for example in China or India or another country

[quote FootballisgoingtoRome]Seems like UEFA is taking action couldn’t agree more with them . Something needs to change .
uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/england-could-forced-play-without-150947977.html[/quote]
Kick them out.

On the subject of the internet/social media being used to give false representation of a country’s bias/racism. Wasn’t it proven that other countries have very successfully used this tactic to destabilise during elections? It strikes me as a very clever way to cause conflict that spills out onto the streets.

So sad to see so many English people bashing themselves up over the behavior of a minority of its citizens. There are always present in all nations people who are like that. They do not reflect the facts in relation to the UK. Investigations many years back identified nations where people were more likely to encounter clear instances of prejudice. The UK was NOT on that list. I am not English but you all need to realise a fact some will convince you is not true. IT IS true the UK is not a nation that could ever be classified as racist.

I remember in Italia 90 that there was a fear that the England fans would behave badly. They were frogmarched to and from the stadiums. In actual fact they conducted themselves fine. It is sadly a hardcore of thugs, in spite of some claiming that anyone who enjoys a football match is a racist (see initial thread on Euros in which post no. 2 accuses someone who is looking forward to Euros of being a bigoted xenophobe and racist). I have been going to football all my life. I have heard racist chants in some places (99% of which was long ago), but never at my team (premiership) and out of the hundreds of supporters I know no one is a violent racist - lots of booing though! (to poster who tutted at booing at anything - not just national anthems)

As usual social media is the absolute scourge of the modern world. Loud voices of whichever persuasion dominate and lead us to think there are more of them than actually exist. Look at MN - a familiarity with posting style reveals that a thread often contains the same old culprits. And I have seen an “embarrassed” poster on this thread posting hard political opinions on another, so their embarrassment methinks is a bit tactical.

@gregaliara

So sad to see so many English people bashing themselves up over the behavior of a minority of its citizens. There are always present in all nations people who are like that. They do not reflect the facts in relation to the UK. Investigations many years back identified nations where people were more likely to encounter clear instances of prejudice. The UK was NOT on that list. I am not English but you all need to realise a fact some will convince you is not true. IT IS true the UK is not a nation that could ever be classified as racist.

English is not the same as British

I am not English but you all need to realise a fact some will convince you is not true. IT IS true the UK is not a nation that could ever be classified as racist.

It isn't. The UK has significant problems with institutional and structural racism. Granted, they are not the same problems as those experienced in the US, but they are problems nonetheless.

That doesn't mean that 'all English people are like that'. It doesn't mean it isn't important that there are perpetrators of domestic violence, sexual abuse and violence against women (a massive problem, and one I'm a vociferous activist against), or that people don't experience setbacks on the basis of socio-economic background or other forms of racism than that directed against black and Asian people: i.e. anti-Semitism, gypsies and travellers. It's all a problem, and numerous structures of power and privilege are responsible.

The suggestion that we all have some degree of responsibility for tackling this, in whatever small ways may be available, has horrified some PPs who are understandably eager to distance themselves from this behaviour. Protestations of 'but I'm not racist' have permeated the thread. That's aside from the point. Our country's institutions are set up to privilege white people, you are far less likely to be stopped and searched if you are white, there have been serious issues within the police force (Google Christopher Alder as just one example). And if you are white, you benefit from that structure of privilege.

The leap from this sort of reasoning to 'you are xenophobic, you hate all English people' is too ignorant even to bother countering on this thread. The whole thread shows that those set in this way of thinking only become bellicose, and I don't have the negative energy to waste.

The suggestion that we all have some degree of responsibility for tackling this

What are you doing to address it?

The two main things mentioned on here - online racist abuse and DV

Have you tackled the racist abuse on Instagram how?