So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

Everyone decent is ashamed

I’ve felt this shame since brexit and it’s not getting any better

This makes me sound like a wanker but thanks to god I live in a large diverse city with ever race and colour

If I lived in a small white only town I’d want to leave

Disgusting shameful

'Yes, some fans behaviours was deplorable, but it’s quite tame compared to some. Every country has dickheads'

Yes.

The anti English comments on here and sm are really appalling. The report on newsnight confirmed something like 5 out of 64 racist attacks were from abroad and yes we all know about vpns but I think there will be more robust ways of checking the country of origin.

It's as if this has given the anti English xenophobes a little bandwagon to jump on, many possibly a bit jealous of England getting to the final.

So again, let's look at the massive outpouring of condemnation there has been for racist comments and all the support Rashford, Sancho and Saka received 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿.

'If I lived in a small white only town I’d want to leave'

As I said the xenophobic comments on here are appalling. Imagine if someone said that about predominantly black areas.

There is nothing wrong with 'small white only towns'. The problem is the racists and they aren't the majority.

Imagine if someone said that about predominantly black areas.

They frequently do. It simply isn't possible for this to have escaped the notice of anyone living in 21st-century Britain. Claim otherwise and I don't believe you.

#2 There is nothing wrong with 'small white only towns'.

Oh, dear!

#3 The problem is the racists and they aren't the majority.

Coming after #2, above. The irony.

@SharkBrilliant

Haven’t rtft but Brazil (for example) has around 30-40 football related deaths per year. Russian fans have been pictured numerous times holding Nazi flags.

Yes, some fans behaviours was deplorable, but it’s quite tame compared to some. Every country has dickheads

whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout

and on and on it goes

The whataboutery on this thread is quite a shock. Stuff happening elsewhere does not make what's happening here, and by the English fans any less. We wouldn't accept this as valid reasoning (excuse) or explanation from our children, yet here we are, a discussion amongst adults with a significant number resorting to 'well it wasn't only us'.

With this widespread response, it's not wonder we are where we are.

We need to focus on our behaviour and how to manage it and leave other countries to sort out theirs.

Very sad. Andnwuite shocking

*and quite shocking

‘Everyone decent is ashamed’

Well if they aren’t. Feeling shame over things that are not your fault is a mental health issue.

'Imagine if someone said that about predominantly black areas.'

'They frequently do. It simply isn't possible for this to have escaped the notice of anyone living in 21st-century Britain. Claim otherwise and I don't believe you.'

If it was said on here it would be deleted as being racist. It is xenophobic, which as we've told you repeatedly is just as bad.

'2 There is nothing wrong with 'small white only towns'.

'Oh, dear'

Oh dear what? Some towns are predominantly white. Nothing wrong with it at all.

'#3 The problem is the racists and they aren't the majority.'

'Coming after #2, above. The irony'

It's the truth. Look at the support Rashford, Sancho and Saka have had and the widespread condemnation of any online abuse.

People need to stop spreading hate.

You can’t condemn racism using xenophobia and then claim whataboutery when people disagree.

We need to focus on our behaviour and how to manage it

All for implementation of new laws. Being looked at currently which is good.

Clamp down, get rid of it

But all this you should all be ashamed no. Especially when posters are talking about DV. Women need to be ashamed? No way.

Online abuse - trace, prosecute, create new laws. Again those going on about shame do bugger all anyway as it’s a ‘waste of time’ so not sure why anyone is claiming high ground.

Also disgusted, shocking and ashamed etc

Xenophobia seems ok for some. Odd they’re fine with that.

'whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout'

'and on and on it goes'

Balance and context. Not one person has defended any racist comments. The English hating is just utterly hypocritical though.

Some people in some countries behave badly. It is always worth pointing out The Evil English are certainly not the worst and are in fact one of the most diverse and inclusive countries.

Posters on here rightly criticise racists but some are hypocritically doing it by being xenophobic. Well done! .

Do these posters complain8ng about monoculture feel the same if they visit an Italian town, or one in the Central African Republic or Japan - or even in the Scottish Isles?

Why is it always England that is so evil?

@MarshaBradyo

Also disgusted, shocking and ashamed etc

Xenophobia seems ok for some. Odd they’re fine with that.

Yes they just don't see it do they, absolutely blinkered.

Don't spread hate! but we hate the English!. I'm mean wtaf.

This makes me sound like a wanker but thanks to god I live in a large diverse city with ever race and colour

And do you believe all those people with "ever race and colour" are more tolerant and progressive than white English people in general?

@DottyHarmer

Do these posters complain8ng about monoculture feel the same if they visit an Italian town, or one in the Central African Republic or Japan - or even in the Scottish Isles?

Why is it always England that is so evil?

I very much doubt one of these people would go to a town in Kenya or Senegal and say 'This town is too black. It needs more white people so that it can be vibrant, diverse and multicultural."

Xenophobia seems ok for some. Odd they’re fine with that.

This is what I don’t understand. Those claiming to anti-racist whilst in the same breath being xenophobic. It doesn’t work like that. Either you stand up against irrational hate based on protected characteristics, or you and the racists are one and the same.

A friend of mine who is Sikh has an adult son who is unbelievably racist,the worst stuff I've heard.

'Why is it always England that is so evil?'

Oh the empire, colonisation, the potato famine, partition, in fact every terrible thing in history is why some hate the English today. We're so bad yet people from actually horrible countries with corrupt dictatorships want to live here!

We don't hate all Muslims because of terrorists but some hate all The English because of things that happened centuries ago.

Racists and xenophobes, as bad as each other.

It is xenophobic, which as we've told you repeatedly is just as bad.

Yes, you keep repeating yourself ad nauseam, but without any means of qualifying your opinions except reissuing statements like 'white-only areas are okay'. You're really not helping yourself.

Recognising issues with institutional racism and wanting to address those issues is not, as you've also frequently been informed, xenophobia. I've explained at some length why I think institutional racism is an issue. If you keep insisting that observations like these are xenomorphic, then I'd be willing to listen to your reasoned judgements as to WHY they're xenophobic. I'm interested.

It's the truth. Look at the support Rashford, Sancho and Saka have had and the widespread condemnation of any online abuse.

The truth being that overt racism isn't a majority stance? Perhaps; but it's also not so uncommon as some people would like to believe. Of course there's been widespread condemnation of that behaviour. I've openly commended that in a recent post. This is because Not All English Are Like That. We already know, and I've never once claimed that they are.

People need to stop spreading hate.

Yes. They do.

'except reissuing statements like 'white-only areas are okay'. You're really not helping yourself'

I didn't say that 🙄.

Some else said:

'If I lived in a small white only town I’d want to leave'

And I said

'the xenophobic comments on here are appalling. Imagine if someone said that about predominantly black areas.'

Do keep up.

The idea that people who live in diverse areas consider themselves morally superior had shaped a lot of recent politics.

It was explored in the book anywheres and somewheres. There are quite a few articles on it.

Do these posters complain8ng about monoculture feel the same if they visit an Italian town, or one in the Central African Republic or Japan - or even in the Scottish Isles?

Indeed - are the inhabitants of small towns in Devon and Cornwall (for example) supposed to feel ashamed because they are predominantly white? No wonder the government are worried about our university academics.

'Recognising issues with institutional racism and wanting to address those issues is not, as you've also frequently been informed, xenophobia'

Oh I'm sorry I thought this thread was called 'embarrassed to be English' with lots of generalised English hating bile and vitriolic crap. Which is xenophobia sorry if I'm boring you.

Now off you pop and start a thread discussing institutionalised racism and please include the bit about how white boys on fsm have the worst outcome, the educational institution is that racist.