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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A library thought it appropriate to book this 'entertainment' for children and I feel sick

633 replies

flashbac · 11/07/2021 23:04

I thought it was a joke, a photoshop job, a hoax even but it's not.

WTF

A children's entertainer in a library with this costume?

twitter.com/StandingforXX/status/1414247886242598912?s=19

What the hell is this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Ninkanink · 13/07/2021 19:54

That was the point that poster was making.

Penises do not belong in safe spaces for women and children.

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 19:57

mobile.twitter.com/slatzism/status/1414995143338381313

Apparently the tweets have been edited by meanies and anyway it's important for children to be able to name body parts accurately which is the same as wispa and monkey dick guy or whatever.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/07/2021 20:01

@NiceGerbil

Depends who you ask.

It used to be an insulting term mainly for gay men. Many do not like the 'reclamation' of the word.

Now it means... Anyone who says they are queer I think.

A lot of the time it seems to mean 'You are dull and ordinary, but I am special'.
RedDogsBeg · 13/07/2021 20:08

It can also be a way of rejecting the perceived norms of the LGBT community (racism, sizeism, ableism etc).

Anyone have a clue what this means?

RedDogsBeg · 13/07/2021 20:11

Are the perceived norms of the LGBT community racist, sizeist (whatever the hell that is alluding to) and ableist? and who is perceiving these as norms?

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 20:12

I think it means word salad horrible people these things are bad so yeah bastards.

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 20:14

Oops wrong link. Can't seem to copy the right one.

Search nick Cho on Twitter. It's interesting.

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 20:16

'They want to ban trans people and to support their bigotry they pretend that people can’t tell the difference between sexual assault & a person existing in their body. It’s this casual dismissal of what it takes to truly be inclusive that leads to violence & death for trans ppl.'

Sooooooo

Children not being taught to be comfy around naked strange males when they are naked too, having strangers penises about the place...

Results in the death of trans people...??!!

Erm.

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 20:25

Oh god point I didn't really consider the words.

Stonewall-

'Queer is a term used by those wanting to reject specific labels of romantic orientation, sexual orientation and/or gender identity. It can also be a way of rejecting the perceived norms of the LGBT community (racism, sizeism, ableism etc). Although some LGBT people view the word as a slur, it was reclaimed in the late 80s by the queer community who have embraced it.'

I've read it a few times and all I can get is that there is a common perception of/ there is a problem with LGBT people being racist, sizeist, ableist...?!

RedDogsBeg · 13/07/2021 20:30

I've read it a few times too NiceGerbil and am flummoxed as to what they are trying to put across and I really want to know what the sizeist bit is all about.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 13/07/2021 20:53

I wonder if he's read that thread by Femme Loves.

twitter.com/FemmeLoves/status/1412316271698448386?s=19

Thread Reader

798 views

Femme Loves💚🤍💜

6 Jul, 29 tweets, 6 min read

BookmarkSave as PDFMy Authors

This is a thread about why telling girls to “avert your eyes” when they see people with penises in the changing room is so wrong. It is a thread about red flags, and seeing no evil and why most people fail child safeguarding at the very first hurdle.

The sexual abuse of children thrives in the dark. Most abused children have multiple people in their life who “half know” what’s going on. Most people I have told as adults said something like “I had my suspicions.” Many people in authority had the chance to intervene and did not

For example, my father lost his teaching job for inappropriate sexual behaviour with teenage girls. He had three daughters at home, the oldest of which was a teenager. No investigation of his home life was done, he was allowed to retire quietly.

All a child abuser asks is that you politely look the other way. See no evil. Don’t cause any waves. Weesht. Just mind your business, wash your hands of it like Pontius Pilate. After all, it’s only suspicion. He’s harmless. Sure he does loads for the community, avert your eyes.

An abused child cries out to be heard, is desperate to be heard, but the things she has to tell you are horrific. An abused child demands action of you, action which may result in the fracturing of your family and your community. Easier to avert your eyes. See no evil.

I can feel it in me now, still, that desperate need to be heard, seen, believed. The loneliness of not being believed. The absolute betrayal of the adults in my life who should have protected me, and instead, protected the men abusing me. They averted their eyes.

I didn’t need to “tell” what was happening to me. Everybody knew. Instead of taking action, I was labelled a bad kid, a “terrible teenager,” because sexual abuse caused hypersexuality, and led to me seeking out situations in which I could be reabused. I was shamed for their sin.

I just accepted it – ok, I’m the bad guy. I’m a slut, I’m responsible, as a young teenager, for adult men wanting to fuck me. I didn’t have the language or understanding to explain any of it, and even if I had, I would have been blamed instead of helped. I just needed to be seen.

But nobody saw me, they just saw this terrible teenager, this slut, this lost girl who put herself in harm's way, who climbed out of her window and fucked strangers and got falling down drunk and didn't care what happened to her. Nobody really looked beyond that. Avert your eyes.

Averting your eyes is loaded language for abuse victims in another way, though. There’s a defence mechanism called dissociation which involves essentially averting your eyes from your own experience. I went away in my head.

I can remember very little of what I actually did not just when I was being abused, but of all the sex I have ever had with men as an adult. I just went away in my head. I have fractured, broken images, but mostly I averted my eyes, Elvis has left the building.

Victims’ tendency to blame ourselves for what happened is another way to avert our eyes. We can’t look squarely at a person who was supposed to protect us, and accept that they abused us instead. So I went back and forth between the poles of a Hobson’s choice.

My father used to make it feel like the sun was coming out. He sat me on his knee and sat me on his workbench and threw me in the air. I loved him. If he was a bad man, then one of the only bright spots in my childhood wasn’t real, and I had lived without love.

Easier to avert my eyes from evil, literally, to see no evil. Easier to take the shame on myself. Easier to conclude that it was me who was bad, that I deserved it. But if you see no evil, you take that evil on yourself, and live without love either way.

This aversion of the gaze is why abuse victims’ accounts of what happened to them may sound deceptive, even to professional lie detectors. Dissociation, guilt and shame conspire to make truthful narratives sound like lies, full of holes.

It is also why victims so often feel so desperate to speak, to tell the truth about what happened to them, and so desperate to be heard, to be believed. I used to feel like I was in a crowded room, screaming, but everybody just looked the other way.

The first rule of child safeguarding is that if you see a red flag, you have a duty, as an adult, to take action on it. A penis in a women’s changing room is the red flag equivalent of the Kremlin on the anniversary of Lenin’s death.

If you are swinging your dick in the women's changing room, you are not dysphoric. I am married to somebody who lives with dysphoria. If you're dysphoric, you want to hide. This is not a case of a trans person just wanting to get changed. Make no mistake, this is a pervert.

It is already flashing, which is a sexual offence. The men and women saying, without a hint of irony, “avert your eyes” are directly enabling sexual abuse. They are giving a free pass to flashers. They are emboldening perverts. They are feckless, thoughtless cowards.

They are averting their eyes, they are seeing no evil. They are excusing predators and perverts with whatever excuse seems most fitting to them. And they are encouraging others to do the same. I hope they are proud of themselves.

It couldn’t be me. I swore, before I had children, that little people would be safer around me. That I would see red flags and act on them, that I would not avert my eyes, not from what happened to me, and not from adults around me.

I am here, looking the truth in the face, and the truth is that defending flashers, perverts and molesters by saying “it’s a woman’s penis,” and doing it in public, is the exact same energy as moving paedophile priests to different parishes.

It is the exact same energy as failing to investigate the home life of a teacher who has teenage daughters, and has lost his job for interfering with teenage girls at school. It is gaslighting, it is covering up for child abuse. It is a cowardly, polite kind of evil

I will leave you with this. I have done a lot of reading about molestation and grooming, trying to understand what happened to me, and learning how to spot red flags, how to protect children. Of all that reading, one phrase stuck with me.

It was from a prolific abuser of children. He said that even if he didn’t actually get to abuse a child that he was grooming, he would “get her ready for the next guy.” Telling a child just to “avert your eyes” is getting her ready for the next guy.

It is breaking down her boundaries. It is telling her to ignore her feelings and her gut. It is gaslighting her. Child molesters are pure evil and fairly rare, but the kind of craven coward who covers for child molesters and blames the victim are ten a penny.

If you say and do these things, you should know what you are. You are Pontious Pilate. You are seeing no evil. You are looking the other way and allowing the sexual abuse of children on your watch, for woke points. I despise you.

Thanks to@JamesBarry1789who planted the seed of this thread last night with the excellent point about averting your eyes.

Empressofthemundane · 13/07/2021 21:11

I’ll continue to vote conservative until this stuff rolls back. It’s become my single voting issue. Women’s rights and children’s protection.

I dot care if Ian seen as a fuddy-Duffy Pearl clutcher. I’ve got enough life experience to know that taking away people’s right to set personal boundaries is abuse.

LizzieW1969 · 13/07/2021 21:44

The sexual abuse of children thrives in the dark. Most abused children have multiple people in their life who “half know” what’s going on. Most people I have told as adults said something like “I had my suspicions.” Many people in authority had the chance to intervene and did not

This was definitely the case with my DSis and me. Quite a few adults had concerns, and a couple actually knew that something was going on. But none of them said anything to my DM, who had no idea that my F was sexually abusing us under her nose.

We feel very let down.

PickUpAPepper · 13/07/2021 22:23

It may (or may not) be of interest to know that this exact conflict between the freedom (of men) to embrace their sexuality and the need for women and children to not be harassed by it has a long history in libraries, particularly in America. It really is nothing new. There the central idea of ‘freedom’ and ‘free speech’ for certain favoured individuals regularly permits the harassment of women and children, as well as economic impoverishment of much of the population. In older Britain and Europe, we have generally accepted limits on individual freedom to enable participation of all. I look forward to the return of the adults to these conversations.

How has this extreme individualism become so entrenched within the political left? I also cannot support it until it comes to its collective senses.

BrozTito · 13/07/2021 22:39

Will you continue to vote conservative while chope, davies, johnson and patel are around? If so you're a raging hypocrite out for yourself. Imagine thinking supporting that shower is some moral stance.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 13/07/2021 22:39

No words apart from beggars belief!

BrozTito · 13/07/2021 22:45

Statistics show trans people actually have a lower murder rate. No idea why the endless 'they're being killed' shtick is still a thing.

Tibtom · 13/07/2021 23:12

@BrozTito

Will you continue to vote conservative while chope, davies, johnson and patel are around? If so you're a raging hypocrite out for yourself. Imagine thinking supporting that shower is some moral stance.
The problem is labour have succeeded in making them look the better option - which is quite some achievement.
nolongersurprised · 13/07/2021 23:38

+It may (or may not) be of interest to know that this exact conflict between the freedom (of men) to embrace their sexuality and the need for women and children to not be harassed by it has a long history in libraries, particularly in America*

But where are the “nice” men? Why aren’t men seeing those pictures on Twitter or reading the news reports about them standing up to say, “Fuck this, stop showing my children dildos, you perverts!”

Do they just ALL secretly want to get their dicks in children’s faces? I don’t understand

NotBadConsidering · 13/07/2021 23:45

@BrozTito

Will you continue to vote conservative while chope, davies, johnson and patel are around? If so you're a raging hypocrite out for yourself. Imagine thinking supporting that shower is some moral stance.
Many people don’t want to vote Conservative either. But won’t vote for Labour while they continue their attack on women’s rights. So many have been left politically homeless. It’s not the fault of voters. It’s the fault of Labour who continue to do all they can to lose the votes of people because they’re too busy focusing on getting Twitter affirmation.
BrozTito · 13/07/2021 23:57

Erm so dont vote either maybe? You cool with FGM, upskirting,MRAs? dont give it the 'dont have a choice' fucking nonsense. You just love money too much.

Deathsquito · 14/07/2021 00:04

I’m a centrist, I’ve voted for most of the parties at some point! Depending on which one most suits my needs at the time.

I will be voting Tory for the foreseeable future. Would love to vote for Labour again at some point (disabled dc/benefits) but can’t see it happening any time soon.

This is the ‘hill I’m willing to die on’. And the Tory’s are the only ones who appear to be slightly rowing away from ‘Oh don’t be mean! Give every man who says they are a woman everything they want! Screw safeguarding, be kind!’

NotBadConsidering · 14/07/2021 00:05

😆 you think this is about money?!

You cool with FGM, upskirting, MRAs?

Like all the MRAs on the extreme left abusing Rosie Duffield? Like all the people on the extreme left, Labour Party supporters, who abused Hibo Wardere for not centring men in her FGM activism?

Who else do people in the UK vote for? The Lib Dems?! They’re just as bad with women’s rights. Ditto the Greens. It’s like Sophie’s Choice.

PollyPepper · 14/07/2021 00:10

I've just googled them and given them a one star review on Google reviews, if anyone else feels so obliged....They are down to 1.9 stars now.

Bunch of creeps.

NiceGerbil · 14/07/2021 00:15

@nolongersurprised

+It may (or may not) be of interest to know that this exact conflict between the freedom (of men) to embrace their sexuality and the need for women and children to not be harassed by it has a long history in libraries, particularly in America*

But where are the “nice” men? Why aren’t men seeing those pictures on Twitter or reading the news reports about them standing up to say, “Fuck this, stop showing my children dildos, you perverts!”

Do they just ALL secretly want to get their dicks in children’s faces? I don’t understand

For the same reason 'nice' men are generally absent from anything labelled 'women's issues' by the media.

Things like CSA, DV, sexual assault in schools, the uselessness from the criminal justice system from start to finish around sex offences that mainly affect girls and women from flashing to rape.

The same reason that so many 'nice' men will laugh along with misgynist jokes in their mates with the pub, take themselves off for their hobbies when they have small kids, have a deep down usually subconscious belief that housework and childcare are not their problem.

For the same reason there are jokes about steak and blowjob day and pretending to be working while they read the paper to avoid bedtime and the mainstreaming of really grim porn and paying for sex...

In so many situations when women speak out the majority of men joining the conversation are there to say no you're wrong shut up.

Deep down they don't feel it's not their problem.
Deep down loads of men have a resentment of women to a greater or lesser degree and moreso since more of us are in s position to choose becsuse-we can look after ourselves because we have taken Their Jobs.

And s big thing is that again deep down loads of men while they care about women and girls they are related to or are friends with...
The rest are 2D stereotypes, cardboard cutouts who are there for the entertainment of men/ or are unnecessary clutter.

They don't care. Sorry. I'm old enough to have over the years sadly accepted this is true.(NAMALT obv some men step in etc but... Not many).