To think that the information we are getting about Wayne Couzens highlights how far men will go to protect other men?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I've always felt uncomfortable about Male judges issuing paltry sentences to Male sexual offenders, on the occasions it does happen.

And now it is emerging how disgusting WCs behaviour has been, knowingly, throughout his time in the police force.

Men (I'll add the old NAMALT here) protect and justify the actions of other men, in the main.

Is this because they themselves are depraved and guilty of similar thoughts or even actions? Or is it some sort of "brotherhood" thing? Could it be that they just want to keep the power they have as a group?

Feels like women are never going to win (and by win I mean, be treated as an equal).

MN - I have specifically put this in AIBU. I do not wish for this to be moved to Feminism.

' If she didn't 'mean' that then learn how to express themselves better because women can't afford to piss off black civil rights out of envy or jealousy.

Women need all the allies we can get, and to get support we have to give it.'

She's one anonymous poster on a chat forum based in the UK. If that's enough to say (all, globally? Some? Which?) feminists will lose support then I would suggest the support wasn't really there in the first place.

Why can't we afford to piss other groups off? I find that an odd statement. If they (a single cohesive group all with aligned opinions and info?) get pissed off because a woman somewhere said something on the internet then what are the consequences? And I mean the idea is bizarre anyway.

Also. Some women interested in women's rights are black. We come from all countries and all backgrounds and all... Everything.

Who says the media give people what they want? What cliche bollocks !!!

I've worked in advertising for aeons and I tell you we give people what WE want them to have until they think it was their idea. That's how it works.

If British women started complaining about the amount of child /women abuse and murder it would pressure the UK networks who in turn would pressure the US. We are a valuable source of revenue (often co-productions) for the US producers - so YES they'd listen if the BBC or ITV says stop. Course they would. Have we ever tried?? No.

See that's the difference between male and female causes. When men want something even if its affects 2.5 of them they never stop nagging until it becomes a thing for everyone. Women sit wringing our hands until we've convinced ourselves to give up. Not a shot fired and the battle is over.

So I repeat...
Until we stop consuming our own rapes and murders its never going to get better on the streets.

Nope. Not having this. Cressida Dick is one of very very few women who reach this kind of position. I've never read or seen anything that makes me think she's dodgy in any way. It's pure misogyny to suggest she shouldn't have that job

Dick is corrupt through and through I’m afraid. She was personally named in the recent report on MET corruption as an obstructor. A report that cost the taxpayer millions because they dragged it out for so long. I don’t know how she’s still in her role. I think the main pro in this case is probably the MET police. They absolutely stink.

*problem

Envy or jealousy. Of what?

Again a strage term.

I'm not jealous of anyone because they experience racism. ?

'Who speaks for women now? Who's our authentic voice? I couldn't tell you.'

Weeellll

Any woman who speaks out about misogyny anywhere in the world is an authentic voice speaking for women.

If you Google you will find loads of brave women all over the world who speak out about the situation for women and girls. Who challenge the police, the courts. Who keep fighting even when it costs them their safety, their reputation, their livelihoods.

If you can't think of anyone then definitely do some reading.

'This thing takes work and when even you - the firebrand on here - is saying "It's boring" then that is a good example of the mountains yet to climb.'

Firebrand? Me??!!

Never been called that and it's not warranted. I'm a bog standard woman with an interest in the position of women and girls around the world. Chatting on a board on mumsnet. You make me sound like I dunno. I'm not sure we do firebrands much here! Erm. That militant tendency fella back when the GLC was about? Forgot his name though!

Ah

'And women when we even try to shout about it. No one even notices. We get laughed at. It's boring.'

I meant that people don't tend to listen when we shout because they find it boring!

It wasn't clear sorry.

Why this media thing?

You think that couzens killed because of the telly?!

That's silly.

You think the media don't give people what they want? Interesting view!

Taking that at face value.

If people don't really wasn't too see women being sexually dominated/ debased.

Why is mainstream porn how it is?

What's the plan there? If women complain about that, the porn will change (!!!) and then the abuse of women and girls will stop?

You know all this sexual violence murder etc happened before the TV and internet were around, I assume?!

In short.

It's a lovely idea but very naive.

Women sending emails to virgin and sky about the content of their output is great if anyone wants to but

I mean you must remember/have heard of Mary Whitehouse?!

Yes glad you mentioned the taliban. Coalition forces left a week ago and the taliban have retaken 1/3rd or even up to half of the country already. Horrific for women and isis are in the mix unlike 1996. A slowmotion car crash far worse than Saigon 75. Perhaps a bit off subject but we cant ignore the global picture

@jskei you actually bring up a very good point re tv in regards to murder and rape. It’s what we see growing up into young adults.

I get violence/rape is shown more against women as let’s face it, with the statistics it’s factually correct but I wonder what the reaction would be if it started to swing the other way and men were also shown getting raped? Just a thought.

Of course people don’t rape and kill purely because of what they see on the telly but bit by bit I think it definitely keeps the scales tipped into women being classed as the ‘weaker sex’.

I’m of the belief that there will always be humans mustering other humans. That’s never going to stop unfortunately.

It’s just sad that as a group, women are so vulnerable and have to change their daily living behaviours in hope it puts them under the radar enough to not be sexually assaulted or killed 🙁

@BrozTito agreed. Watched an extended news documentary and it was brought up several times there was not a girl or woman to be seen. It must be so scary for them 🙁

Yep i knew the afghan national army were corrupt and useless and would fall to pieces but even im amazed at the speed. The world just gets darker but especially for women

[quote jskei]@Charley50

If you want a high profile support of women's issues like the BLM will YOU put yourself on the line like they do? No - thought not.

Colin Kapernick has lost millions because he made a simple statement of fact - same for Muhammed Ali 50 years ago Coz racism & misogony never bloody ends.

People like you pit white resentment against BLM against women becoz men women like you think you have something to gain from it. But unless you're landed aristocracy or a multi-millionaire you're not the far up the totem pole no matter what you tell yourself.

When people like you say "what about BLM" in your fake innocent little voice its underhand racism and we know you ain't here to do squat for women... which is maybe your point.[/quote]

I didn't make the initial post bringing BLM / racism into the thread; I was responding to it, and comments about it.
Apologies that you got the message I was pitting one group against another, I wasn't intending to that with regards to anti-racism. I would 'just' like high-profile male sectors in relevant areas to support women, yes. So I would like the FA to speak up against domestic violence that is escalated when football is on, for example, and particularly against men playing in women's sports.

I do my bit for women's rights. I raise the issue at work as it impacts vulnerable people I work with, in spite of being given a warning for being 'transphobic,' I go on protests, I write to MPs and the BBC, I share petitions and articles with friends, I pay money to support campaigns supporting women, and to Sex Matters. I am not a high-profile person, but do what I can. So yes, I do my bit.

What I said was I wish women's rights issues had the widespread public and institutional support that anti-racism and Pride campaigns have. Is that not OK to say?

I made the point that a lot of the pro-trans stuff so fashionable and ubiquitous right now is actively damaging to women's rights, including pro-trans police activism and actions (arresting women for pro-women tweets for example). Women's rights are seen of as niche and optional, and the scandal of 2-3 a week women being killed by partners, and DV and rape convictions being so low is shrugged off. The request to keep men out of women's prisons is seen as outlandish by many people, including those who make the law. Women are repeatedly told to shut the fuck up when we talk about women's rights, even in the face of widespread data about male violence against women. There is literally no baseline in the UK in which everyone in political power publicly agrees on a basic level that women should have equal rights. Our rights are up for grabs constantly.

In short, I suppose I am pitting the current manifestation of support for Pride and 'inclusivity' in the UK, meaning trans rights, against women's rights, as I see the conflict there, but I'm not pitting anti-racism initiatives against women's rights, as I don't believe there is a conflict between the two.

Sorry if I've offended anyone.

It's not so much 'the lengths they will go to' as 'the extent to which they don't even realise they're doing it'

They don't even think about how they're minimising women's feelings, excusing other men's behaviour etc. And that's why it's so hard to tackle.