To think that the information we are getting about Wayne Couzens highlights how far men will go to protect other men?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I've always felt uncomfortable about Male judges issuing paltry sentences to Male sexual offenders, on the occasions it does happen.

And now it is emerging how disgusting WCs behaviour has been, knowingly, throughout his time in the police force.

Men (I'll add the old NAMALT here) protect and justify the actions of other men, in the main.

Is this because they themselves are depraved and guilty of similar thoughts or even actions? Or is it some sort of "brotherhood" thing? Could it be that they just want to keep the power they have as a group?

Feels like women are never going to win (and by win I mean, be treated as an equal).

MN - I have specifically put this in AIBU. I do not wish for this to be moved to Feminism.

Black lives matter and so do women's. Why are people trying to pit them against each other? You should support both, those scabby right wing tabloids/journalists you think suddenly 'support women' due to their hatred of minorities meaning they've got round to hating trans people couldnt give a shit and are at the forefront of misogyny.

And yes as pp said the police dont give a fuck either. They may as well have screamed that with the jokes they sent each other during this case. The same issues black people face from the police are relevant in protecting women.

I'm not pitting them against each other. No-one has tbh. It's great that institutions publicly support anti-racism and pro-gay initiatives.

However I was asking where is the similar high-profile support for women's rights and safety? And sorry but many trans rights are in direct conflict with women's rights, so when institutions support trans rights they are taking an active stance against women IMO. This can be seen in police forces arresting women for pro-women tweets, and in allowing violent male sex offenders to call themselves women in court.

@BrozTito

And yes as pp said the police dont give a fuck either. They may as well have screamed that with the jokes they sent each other during this case. The same issues black people face from the police are relevant in protecting women.

Yes I agree, our supposedly impartial police don't protect all people equally.

#nicegerbil I can't see your message. Would be interested in what you cut and paste

"Black lives matter (and rightly so), but us? No one gives a fuck"

What a offensive and unnecessary statement. Who is 'us'? Some people are both black and women

*www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-officer-fired-sexual-assault-sleeping-woman-train-met-thameslink-kyle-carl-blood-sacked-a8624751.html%3famp
Victim testimony
Two independent witnesses
As well as sexual assault getting aggressive with the men

Where's the prosecution for assault?
Why only a tribunal?*

The article says he was prosecuted and found not guilty at court

The police can’t hold an internal investigation until the CPS have decided to prosecute and the criminal investigation concluded. Which is why so many are “suspended” for so long, not sacked immediately.

If he had been found guilty then there’d presumably been no need for evidence etc at the tribunal. But a not guilty finding means they need enough evidence to justify dismissal.

The law in this country is a bit of a shit show. Backlogs, waiting years on bail, CPS refusing to prosecute anything that isn’t a certainty.

@justasking111

Cressida Dick of the met really is Teflon coated I don't see things improving with her at the helm

If she can be in charge of an operation that removes an innocent mans head with 7 exploding bullets and still get promoted, I really can't see anything lesser - like Couzens crimes - affecting her. The message is clear and it doesn't involve competence.

@nosafeguardingadults
I’m so sorry.

@NiceGerbil

Aw fuck I've pasted a massive thing! Sorry sorry.

I'll ask for it to be deleted.

Would you mind reposting or linking me up please? Thank you

Same as flipper please nice I’d like to read it.

I was assaulted repeatedly as a teenager by a classmate. He would stab me, punch me, forcibly shove my head under the desk, lift up my skirt as I walked past. No one ever did anything.
Guess where he works now? The Met.

Reading all these threads about WC avidly. Thanks to @NiceGerbil and all the other posters who aim this up so well. I will be placemarking and rereading. The bit about abusive and controlling types being attracted to the Police service. So true!!

@Badmuthachuffa @FlipperSkipper I believe nicegerbil pasted her comments from what she wrote on the thread about this on the feminism:chat board.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4292271-Wayne-couzens-pleads-guilty-to-the-murder-of-Sarah-Everard

I’ve posted this image before but it depresses me every time I look at it. It’s so easy for people to disregard the first level but we do have to start somewhere in changing attitudes.

If people who get caught speeding have to go to a speed awareness course why is there not something similar for offenders who wouldn’t be given prison time? I know this is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it and has its own issues but so much goes under the radar and isn’t dealt with at the start and it’s just not fair.

@Sn0tnose

You can’t ruin a man’s career or his reputation just because he’s tried to have bit of a laugh with some uptight woman who can’t take a joke. And it is only women he’s done it to. It’s not like he’s made any men feel uncomfortable enough to report him. What does it matter?

And this is repeated up and down the country, in workplaces in every industry. Women don’t matter. It’s not sexual harassment; it’s women with no sense of humour, or feminists, or women with grudges who are using #Metoo to bring a good man down. It’s not sexual assault unless she’s hit over the head and dragged off by a stranger.

Yep, and the irony is that all the things that Wayne Couzens was doing, all the low level stuff that was laughed off and dismissed, led to the textbook 'kidnap a woman literally off the street, rape her and murder her'.

Which, as you say, is the only type of attack that is actually taken seriously. Anything at all less than this is just 'bantz' or 'her asking for it'. And even then it's 'why was she walking alone' or 'oooh she had had some wine'.....

Aaarghhhh, I'm so fucking angry about this right now.

Thank you wantto

@AnxiousAndUnraveling I posted earlier, this has come up due to Lisa Squire campaigning for this to happen. Hopefully she gets the ball rolling on this and there can be some kind of movement to get ‘low level’ (that’s not actually low level at all!) behaviours addressed. At least get people would hopefully get on a police radar.

The man that killed her daughter Libby had escalated behaviours.

Society in general needs a shift. I was talking to my husband about when I when young and went clubbing, walking past groups of men to get to the loos we would face a barrage of grabbing of private’s, bums, boobs, leering etc. This was the norm when I went out. Being in a packed club you’d have no real idea of who it was, just a gauntlet of hands. Of course if you turned around to tell them to piss off you’d be faced with men laughing, a ‘way hay’ or get a mouth full of abuse.

For me, its not just that he's been protected from the consequences of his actions; at the same time he was in an elite unit and was licensed to carry a firearm.

There definetly needs to be a scale / flags added. I'd go so far as to say even having a report of indecent exposure against you should result in an immediate flag. No going throught the courts until a trigger point is hit.

I live about 10 doors aways from where libby squire's murderer lived and a lot has come out about how he was known to be up to this stuff up to a year before and known to the police, they even had his semen sample. When she went missing they arsed about for weeks hassling homeless people fixated on a red tent etc instead. I get that her mother doesnt want to criticise local police but this was so obviously going to happen. Certain high up officers are known to frequent prostitutes and the force has long been a mess(also complicit in ian huntley getting a job at a school despite his history). It breaks my heart thinking about her parents and her as a young guest in the city.

@Oilyoilyoilgob I am ashamed to say I hadn’t heard of Libby Squire, how heartbreaking. I’d like to get on board somehow to help change. Like other posters have said it makes me so angry, nothing changes and I feel like we’ve gone backwards.

When I was at uni the boys would play tit cricket, points for various grabs, you got out of you were slapped. It was horrible but also the norm. Of course the women were told they were the ones with the problem if they got upset or angry.

I think it is much more basic though. They don't notice the behaviour of their friends a lot of the time. When women stand up and tell their friends (men and women) about their #MeToo moment(s) the women generally nod and say "yep, i had that too" and the men are all "wow, really, i didn't notice" and often they say "no, surely not. I would have said something if I'd bee there". I've had the latter and when I've said "you were, you didn't, you laughed along" they get all defensive.

I'm not going to NAMALT because, frankly, if they don't engage in this then I'm not talking to them here.

I don’t believe it’s about the men bits the thought that women’s lives are worth as much