To think that the information we are getting about Wayne Couzens highlights how far men will go to protect other men?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I've always felt uncomfortable about Male judges issuing paltry sentences to Male sexual offenders, on the occasions it does happen.

And now it is emerging how disgusting WCs behaviour has been, knowingly, throughout his time in the police force.

Men (I'll add the old NAMALT here) protect and justify the actions of other men, in the main.

Is this because they themselves are depraved and guilty of similar thoughts or even actions? Or is it some sort of "brotherhood" thing? Could it be that they just want to keep the power they have as a group?

Feels like women are never going to win (and by win I mean, be treated as an equal).

MN - I have specifically put this in AIBU. I do not wish for this to be moved to Feminism.

'That's before we even start with the total inability to connect "low level " sex offences with the offenders objectifying women and feeling entitled to sex, pushing boundaries'

Thing is this has been known for ages.
And I find it difficult to believe that in this day and age it's too hard to even try to link reports.

There's just no appetite. It's for women to deal with. And not make a fuss. Until it's a serious widely reported crime. And then it's all wow who would have thought?
Women that's who.
Those who study sex offenders.
And I would have assumed, the sodding police!!!

@NiceGerbil

In simple terms it's 'bros before h**s'.

I wrote some long posts on another thread I can grab them.

Remember this is not surprising or new.

It's well known that flashers escalate.
It's clear that society and the authorities see indecent exposure generally as trivial. Upsetting maybe. But v common and non contact. Not a big deal. Laugh it off/ don't make a fuss. An ex police officer said it on telly while this case was being reported.

This.

I cannot get over the lack of effort that two different police forces put into solving the reported incidents of indecent exposure that this man seems to have committed. It’s breathtaking negligence.

Compare and contrast with legal attitudes to “gateway drugs”.

The fact is, if you report being raped then you - the victim - will be investigated in depth first, treated like a suspect, and have every detail of your private life combed through, including medical records and psychological therapy records, before they even consider investigating your rapist.

And if they get that far, he'll be given the benefit of the doubt throughout.

Whereas you as the victim will not be given the benefit of the doubt at all.

Even being traumatised (i.e. injured) by the trauma you've been subjected to will be used against you. Held up as evidence against you.

For me, that captures everything wrong with how our society views and treats abuse against women. That is why it continues. There is tacit acceptance and a belief that if it happened that you brought it on yourself.

That is why time and time again men like this are shrugged off even as they leave a trail of devastation in their wake. Men who can kill multiple partners and still be free to kill another partner.

Just this week the BBC reported on calls for anonymity for defendants in sexual abuse cases, and ended their reporting with a quote asking why complainants do not have their anonymity revoked if there is no conviction! With no attempt made whatsoever to clarify by the BBC why of course anonymity for complainants must be lifelong regardless of whether a successful prosecution occurs or not.

It basically left the impression that a not guilty outcome meant the complainant was a perjurer who should be exposed. When that is clearly not the case and you can very easily explain that without undermining what an acquittal is.

It's just completely irresponsible reporting. But accepted because so many agree.

FYI I think that loads of women want to talk about these sorts of things and while the feminism board is good there are conversations that I think would be good to happen on the more widely read boards.

Agreed. I would hate to see all discussion of women’s issues on MN siloed. Feminism shouldn’t be a minority interest. This impacts us all.

@Unsuremover

I think everyone who knew “something” was wrong and didn’t flag it should be charged. Not necessarily imprisoned (unless they knew he was guilty of a crime) but enough that it flags on a background check and will impact on them working with children or vulnerable adults. Starting tomorrow that’ll be a hell of a lot of people get getting charged but I can’t see what else will change the thinking. Will allow dot to be joined too and that will provide the police with evidence of how these “unique circumstances” come to be.

Oh yes, it's always an "isolated incident", isn't it?

And it is merely ever so coincidental that all the "isolated incidents" form a wider pattern.

I cannot get over the lack of effort that two different police forces put into solving the reported incidents of indecent exposure that this man seems to have committed. It’s breathtaking negligence.

It's standard.

100% I was watching my kids play in a quiet patch of grass and a very drunk male came and literally pulled his trousers down and peed about 6 ft away from my kids. On our way home i told a couple of male police officers who told me he probably didn't know as he was drunk . So he flashed in front of children and me but its ok hes just a sillu drunk man!!!

@takemehometoasda

I cannot get over the lack of effort that two different police forces put into solving the reported incidents of indecent exposure that this man seems to have committed. It’s breathtaking negligence.

It's standard.

Well it’s disgusting and I hope this sparks a movement for change.

This is a total side note but a friend applied for the MET in recent years, passed all the fitness tests, interviews etc and was ready to go.
Failed her disclosure checks. She doesn’t have a record, not so much as a parking fine.
She eventually found out she failed due to third party involvement - ie her stbxh is a bit dodgy and she’d failed to declare the details up front. She didn’t actually know any of it to declare.

So an honest, respectable, law abiding woman was stopped from becoming an officer due to the actions of a male third party but WC managed to openly conduct himself in so many disgusting, illegal and predatory ways whilst securing a MET role.

I don’t know the answer.
Tackling low level deviant behaviour is essential though isn’t it.
Strike hard from the outset. Take it for the big red flag it is. Waving your cock at women isnt a joke. It’s a bit flag with the words “probable rapist” written in bold.

Cressida Dick of the met really is Teflon coated I don't see things improving with her at the helm

@NiceGerbil

I have reported my cut and paste error so if you don't want it to go I can try and cancel?

FYI I think that loads of women want to talk about these sorts of things and while the feminism board is good there are conversations that I think would be good to happen on the more widely read boards.

So please do come by the feminism chat board if you like- I post a lot on there.

With the recent reshuffle of the board anything about gender/ sex etc isn't on the chat board any more.

I'm never off the feminism boards

But sometimes things need to get to more people.

Well it’s disgusting and I hope this sparks a movement for change.

I would want to see change too. How many times have we heard that though? That the latest horror should be the catalyst for change?

How many times do we hear "lessons have been learned" and then find ourselves reading that the same thing has happened again?

How many times do we see the institution protecting itself at any cost rather than the people it is tasked with protecting?

I don't have any hope of things changing anymore.

@takemehometoasda

Women are judged on their past whilst men are judged regarding their future. Was ever thus and so fucking depressing.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-officer-fired-sexual-assault-sleeping-woman-train-met-thameslink-kyle-carl-blood-sacked-a8624751.html%3famp

We had a very similar case local to me, with ‘low level’ offending (I wouldn’t call it that) that escalated and ended in the rape and murder of poor Libby Squire.

Her mum Lisa is now trying to help with rehabilitation of offending such as flashing etc to try and stop escalation.

I honestly can’t believe what I’ve read on this thread about WC and nothing was done. Poor Sarah getting snatched by him 🙁
The sooner things like flashers/peeping toms etc are taken seriously the better.

You can’t ruin a man’s career or his reputation just because he’s tried to have bit of a laugh with some uptight woman who can’t take a joke. And it is only women he’s done it to. It’s not like he’s made any men feel uncomfortable enough to report him. What does it matter?

Yes to this. This attitude runs the length an breadth of not just this country, but EVERYWHERE.

Things are actually getting worse for women and girls. It's regressed decades.

The people currently in power enough to make a change have skin in the game though.

They will always look after their own.

It is not only the lack of care for women, it is the fact that men who rape men and are caught are given much tougher sentences, so when men are the victims it is much worse.

Eg Forbuoys, the black cab driver who drugged and raped women- minimum term 8 years.

Reynhard Sinaga, drugged and raped men - life, minimum 30 years

[quote spaceghetto]www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-officer-fired-sexual-assault-sleeping-woman-train-met-thameslink-kyle-carl-blood-sacked-a8624751.html%3famp[/quote]
Victim testimony
Two independent witnesses
As well as sexual assault getting aggressive with the men

Where's the prosecution for assault?
Why only a tribunal?

Big big question. Why are the tribunal asking the victim to give evidence to the tribunal as if it were a court? She gave evidence from behind a curtain so clearly it was a big deal for her.

Why couldn't they just ask the other witnesses?

If she's going to do that why not at a proper trial?

Anyway. So he was sacked and cried and said he hadn't sexually assaulted anyone and then changed his name to try and hide from it. He was a cop. Changing your name is what he did...
100s of sex offenders have been 'lost' by police/ probation, who are supposed to be checked on. Many had changed their names...

I hadn't seen that case before it properly stinks.

Cressida Dick of the met really is Teflon coated I don't see things improving with her at the helm
Nope. Not having this. Cressida Dick is one of very very few women who reach this kind of position. I've never read or seen anything that makes me think she's dodgy in any way. It's pure misogyny to suggest she shouldn't have that job

@QuentinBunbury

Cressida Dick of the met really is Teflon coated I don't see things improving with her at the helm Nope. Not having this. Cressida Dick is one of very very few women who reach this kind of position. I've never read or seen anything that makes me think she's dodgy in any way. It's pure misogyny to suggest she shouldn't have that job

She presided over the execution- style shooting of the completely blameless Jean Charles De Menezes. To be totally cleared despite personally giving the order to shoot and then to get a huge promotion so soon afterwards was slightly surprising TBH.

She hasn’t been too impressive the past two years either. Especially in respect of the Clapham Common vigil. She doesn’t get a free pass from me simply for being a woman. She is hardly supporting women’s interests.

@FrankButchersDickieBow

You can’t ruin a man’s career or his reputation just because he’s tried to have bit of a laugh with some uptight woman who can’t take a joke. And it is only women he’s done it to. It’s not like he’s made any men feel uncomfortable enough to report him. What does it matter?

Yes to this. This attitude runs the length an breadth of not just this country, but EVERYWHERE.

Things are actually getting worse for women and girls. It's regressed decades.

It truly has regressed decades.

Much of the blame must be laid at the door of the internet and 24/7 access to the most appalling pornography.

We are all supposed to be in service to the dick and the Male orgasm. In the minds of these creatures, women exist for no other purpose.

The truly sickening thing is the next generation of boys growing into teenagers will have a completely twisted attitude to sex and relationships.

WC wanted to live out a particular depraved fantasy. He acted with massive premeditation and drove around for four hours before selecting his victim. I wonder if the orgasm was worth it, the bastard.

A camera on a bus captured the image of the hired car with 2 people standing by it. WC has told the police no details of what happened. I suspect though that it was lockdown and as a serving police officer he would have been able to stop her and tell her she shouldn't be out and offer her a lift home. If once complaints had been received he'd had his warrant card removed and he'd been suspended from duty then he 'd have been less likely to have had the opportunity to stop her.

Absolutely heartbreaking case as her body was burnt so it took time to establish strangulation as the cause of death

@QuentinBunbury

Cressida Dick of the met really is Teflon coated I don't see things improving with her at the helm Nope. Not having this. Cressida Dick is one of very very few women who reach this kind of position. I've never read or seen anything that makes me think she's dodgy in any way. It's pure misogyny to suggest she shouldn't have that job

Can't agree. Cressida dick is a total disaster.

Jean Charles menezes murdered, her operation. They lied about it for ages.

Recent thing in news- what was it? Report said met were disaster. She didn't say thanks lessons learned. She just said nope.

Oh yes it was corruption meaning a murder wasn't investigated in any meaningful way for decades. She was named personally in the report as being... Overseeing a culture of corruption (forget wording).

Going to papers and saying met will no longer have a starting point of believing sex offence reports (which sounds ok unless the context and history is known).

Also that she was not interested in looking into cases where there was little chance of prosecution (we're told over and over the police don't make decisions on that basis) and that she wasn't interested in sex offences that were... Misinterpreted signals. Or sex offences that happened years ago (I took that as a reference to historic CSA).

There's plenty more.

She's fucking awful.